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> GM has sold 3,000 Bolt units so far in 2017. Tesla will sell hundreds of thousands of Model 3s in 2018. The difference is, GM can actually manufacture the ca

> GM has sold 3,000 Bolt units so far in 2017. Tesla will sell hundreds of thousands of Model 3s in 2018. The difference is, GM can actually manufacture the cars it sells.

mtgx 9y ago
Yes, at a loss. Do you actually think GM who are "so good at manufacturing" will sell more EVs than Tesla will sell Model 3's by the end of next year? I won't even include Model S and X, to make it more fair.
- gamblor956 9y ago
  Tesla also currently sells Model 3s at a loss using the same GAAP[1] accounting metrics GM uses. (Their latest quarterly report states that they're not even break even on a non-GAAP method of accounting.[2]) The difference is that GM can afford to absorb the loss while it ramps up production. Tesla needs the Model 3 to be profitable, or the company dies. [1]GAAP = generally accepted accounting principles. In other words, standardized methods of accounting for profit and loss. Tesla uses non-standard (i.e., non-GAAP) accounting in its financial reports to paint a rosier picture of its financial state than GAAP reporting would provide. Some people say that non-GAAP reporting paints a more accurate picture of a company than GAAP. This might be true for new industries that don't have sufficient history to establish industry-specific GAAP. However, the auto industry has been around for more than 100+ years, so the use of non-GAAP accounting by Tesla and Faraday is generally indicative of unstable financial health. [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2017/11/01/tesla-pins-model-3-production-snag-on-battery-packs-as-quarterly-loss-widens/#514f08585488 https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2017/11/01/tesla-pi...
- mikestew 9y ago
  Do you actually think GM who are "so good at manufacturing" will sell more EVs than Tesla will sell Model 3's by the end of next year? GM could should they choose to do so. They can certainly manufacture them, whereas Tesla's ability is questionable. But one has to sell them once their made. Oh, sure, you might buy a Tesla. Hell, I bought a Leaf, I might buy a Tesla. But you know who won't buy a Tesla? Everyone after the early adopters. GM's been making cars for over 100 years. Odds are really good that a potential customer has owned a GM. Odds are near zero that a potential Tesla customer has owned a Tesla before. For good or for bad, GM is a known quantity. Personally, I go back and forth before laying out money for a $700 phone that is a switch from my current phone. Now scale that up to a $35K car. Maybe you'll just take that out of petty cash from your last liquidity event. The rest of us will scrape together a down payment and hope we can make that monthly nut. And if you're doing that, you're going with the safe bet. The safe bet has a nation-wide network of dealers to work on it, has sold cars for 100 years, and isn't going out of business any time soon. The less-safe bet can't even tell you when you're getting your car +/- six months. In short, when we bought our Leaf, I knew it could easily turn into a $35K mistake, but we have the means and the risk tolerance. I would not make the mistake of projecting that to Mr. and Mrs. Middle America.
cmrdporcupine 9y ago
He also stated an outright mistruth; GM sold 3000 Bolts in the US in November, and 20,070 over a 9 month period.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
JCummings01 9y ago
GM Extends Plant Shutdown to Rein In Chevy Bolt Supply http://fortune.com/2017/07/17/gm-shutdown-chevy-bolt-supply/ http://fortune.com/2017/07/17/gm-shutdown-chevy-bolt-supply/
- cmrdporcupine 9y ago
  This was false. The plant was shut down for an extra two weeks to control Sonic supply. There's been more demand than inventory almost everywhere except California. They've basically sold everything they've made. LG Chem was contracted for 30k batteries and that's about what they will have sold by Jan or Feb or so at the current rate.

> GM has sold 3,000 Bolt units so far in 2017. Tesla will sell hundreds of thousands of Model 3s in 2018. The difference is, GM can actually manufacture the cars it sells.

mtgx 9y ago

Yes, at a loss. Do you actually think GM who are "so good at manufacturing" will sell more EVs than Tesla will sell Model 3's by the end of next year? I won't even include Model S and X, to make it more fair.

gamblor956 9y ago
Tesla also currently sells Model 3s at a loss using the same GAAP[1] accounting metrics GM uses. (Their latest quarterly report states that they're not even break even on a non-GAAP method of accounting.[2]) The difference is that GM can afford to absorb the loss while it ramps up production. Tesla needs the Model 3 to be profitable, or the company dies. [1]GAAP = generally accepted accounting principles. In other words, standardized methods of accounting for profit and loss. Tesla uses non-standard (i.e., non-GAAP) accounting in its financial reports to paint a rosier picture of its financial state than GAAP reporting would provide. Some people say that non-GAAP reporting paints a more accurate picture of a company than GAAP. This might be true for new industries that don't have sufficient history to establish industry-specific GAAP. However, the auto industry has been around for more than 100+ years, so the use of non-GAAP accounting by Tesla and Faraday is generally indicative of unstable financial health. [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2017/11/01/tesla-pins-model-3-production-snag-on-battery-packs-as-quarterly-loss-widens/#514f08585488 https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2017/11/01/tesla-pi...
mikestew 9y ago
Do you actually think GM who are "so good at manufacturing" will sell more EVs than Tesla will sell Model 3's by the end of next year? GM could should they choose to do so. They can certainly manufacture them, whereas Tesla's ability is questionable. But one has to sell them once their made. Oh, sure, you might buy a Tesla. Hell, I bought a Leaf, I might buy a Tesla. But you know who won't buy a Tesla? Everyone after the early adopters. GM's been making cars for over 100 years. Odds are really good that a potential customer has owned a GM. Odds are near zero that a potential Tesla customer has owned a Tesla before. For good or for bad, GM is a known quantity. Personally, I go back and forth before laying out money for a $700 phone that is a switch from my current phone. Now scale that up to a $35K car. Maybe you'll just take that out of petty cash from your last liquidity event. The rest of us will scrape together a down payment and hope we can make that monthly nut. And if you're doing that, you're going with the safe bet. The safe bet has a nation-wide network of dealers to work on it, has sold cars for 100 years, and isn't going out of business any time soon. The less-safe bet can't even tell you when you're getting your car +/- six months. In short, when we bought our Leaf, I knew it could easily turn into a $35K mistake, but we have the means and the risk tolerance. I would not make the mistake of projecting that to Mr. and Mrs. Middle America.

cmrdporcupine 9y ago

He also stated an outright mistruth; GM sold 3000 Bolts in the US in November, and 20,070 over a 9 month period.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

JCummings01 9y ago

GM Extends Plant Shutdown to Rein In Chevy Bolt Supply http://fortune.com/2017/07/17/gm-shutdown-chevy-bolt-supply/ http://fortune.com/2017/07/17/gm-shutdown-chevy-bolt-supply/

cmrdporcupine 9y ago
This was false. The plant was shut down for an extra two weeks to control Sonic supply. There's been more demand than inventory almost everywhere except California. They've basically sold everything they've made. LG Chem was contracted for 30k batteries and that's about what they will have sold by Jan or Feb or so at the current rate.