6 ms·

I think I tend towards the Aubrey de Grey point of view on this- it's not necessarily anything anyone is doing wrong here, it's more that these folks are living

I think I tend towards the Aubrey de Grey point of view on this- it's not necessarily anything anyone is doing wrong here, it's more that these folks are living in dying bodies that can't do what they want them to do. If they were suddenly young again- they could go out, make new connections, start over. With that said, I do see the point that this is a western/capitalist phenomenon in the sense that capitalism encourages business relationships at the expense of personal ones. And it's the personal ones that are more lasting and meaningful and which you need once you reach retirement age.

mschaef 9y ago
> these folks are living in dying bodies If you're not, please let us know your secret.
- vixen99 9y ago
  Yes. Break the 'them & us' concept and solutions will present themselves.
icc97 9y ago
I think it might come back to haunt the butterfly generation, where it's fun to fly off round the world. But then you rarely create connections that are deep enough to stay with you til your death bed.
- skadamou 9y ago
  What exactly is the butterfly generation? I have never heard this term before. Are you referring to the book "The Butterfly Generation" by Palash Krishna Mehrotra and if so does this term have a distinctly Indian meaning or does it apply to people from other countries as well? Thanks for satisfying my curiosity! https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13432312-the-butterfly-generation https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13432312-the-butterfly-g...
  - icc97 9y ago
    The butterfly generation term that I knew was from when I started work in London around 2000. [0] > 'Engaging the Butterfly Generation', the generation of kids that just won't settle, anywhere! I took it to indicate a generation of teenagers / university graduates that grew up being able to use the benefits of globalisation and to flit from one job or country to the next with ease. [0]: http://www.c21media.net/conference-event/c21-kids-content-futures/ http://www.c21media.net/conference-event/c21-kids-content-fu...
    - JBlue42 9y ago
      I did that throughout my early 20s. I'm still in regular contact with people I met 14-15 years ago. It takes effort for regular stuff. The only reason I keep my Facebook around is because it's a glorified address book and I'll hear from some of the folks from my past travels on there around holidays and birthdays. It's about the same as I talk to cousins and aunts/uncles. My core group of friends is in touch all the time. About 12 people since 2001. I don't talk with anyone from high school (pre-01). It just depends on your level of effort. I think for American kids, it's definitely worth getting out into the world and seeing a different perspective. It can only improve our country when we get outside the rhetoric/news bubble and see how things are done, for better or worse, in the rest of the world.
sandworm101 9y ago
>>> If they were suddenly young again- they could go out, make new connections, start over. I'm not so sure about that. I've met a great many elderly people who want nothing more than to rewind the clock. Given the opportunity they don't want to meet new people or do new things. They fear such experiences. That may be as symptom of being older and more frail, buy any answers to the problem wont come from trying to transform the old into the young. I don't think throwing technology at the problem will help. Nearly every elderly person I've met would much rather have a daily visit from a younger (50s) non-threatening person than even 24/7 video chat with their families.
- gaius 9y ago
  Given the opportunity they don't want to meet new people But what if all their old friends were young again too?
crispyambulance 9y ago
Folks following the Aubrey de Grey line of thought separate "the person" and "their body" as though the person exists as some kind of "software" running in "hardware" that is about to fail. It might not be that simple. Being suddenly young again would certainly be delightful for a while but there's a huge psychological burden that comes with living for a long time. While it may be possible to extend the life of the body, there are related philosophical considerations that the "live-forever" folks IMHO are flippantly dismissing. It makes me concerned that in the distant future we could find ourselves as a society with ever more problems that we're not equipped to deal with. We'll all likely be dead by then, but it makes for a thought.
- erasemus 9y ago
  >there's a huge psychological burden that comes with living for a long time What is the burden? A burden I foresee is that people are going to have to choose between life extension and assisted suicide.
- gknoy 9y ago
  I think many people would prefer to be in a body that Doesn't Age/Die Without Permission, and then figure out how to handle the problems later. I'm not saying that's a _wise_ choice, and it could certainly have issues for wealth accumulation, but staving off a certain thing (death) in exchange for nebulous maybe-bad-things (hypothetical future problems) is something that humans seem to be notoriously bad about reasoning about. Hell, I type this, and I fall for it too: I'd much rather be able to live forever, without fear of Alzheimer's or a failing body. I have no idea how I'd pay for that, but I'd be a liar if I said I didn't want to Not Die.
- gaius 9y ago
  Being suddenly young again would certainly be delightful for a while but there's a huge psychological burden that comes with living for a long time Such as what exactly? No-one knows - including you - because no-one has ever run old "software" on young/rejuvenated "hardware". I think that 99% of people in failing hardware given the option to try their 18- or even 30-year old bodies again would jump at the chance and worry about vague hand-wavy "psychological burdens" later - or perhaps not ever if the new body didn't age...
jlj 9y ago
No one ever says "I wished I worked more" from their deathbed. Prioritizing money and status ahead of family and friends is a personal decision. Business and personal success can coexist in capitalism but many people choose the former over the latter and assume they are mutually exclusive. I made that choice out of college and it took me until my mid 30's to realize it. It's really hard to re-learn how to go the other way, and I imagine it's even harder for someone who operates that way their whole adult life into retirement.
- rxhernandez 9y ago
  > No one ever says "I wished I worked more" from their deathbed. I did, well at least on what could have been and what I thought was my death bed. I was very ill for months and when I started to feel like I wasn't ever going to get better I tried my best to scramble to produce publishable research.
- TheCoelacanth 9y ago
  Maybe not in those words, but I would bet there are a lot of people who wish that they had more financial security throughout their life. It's much harder to maintain relationships without financial security. One of the leading causes of divorce is extended periods of unemployment. There is also some evidence that men who work longer hours tend to have happier marriages. That would suggest that it might at least sometimes be a rational decision to put in extra hours even if you are optimizing for relationship quality rather than money or status.
- gaius 9y ago
  No one ever says "I wished I worked more" from their deathbed. No-one wishes they'd spent more time at some pointless job sure, but I'll wager there are many who wish they'd pursued some opportunity with greater effort.
- bartedinburgh 9y ago
  Except those who die in poverty after a miserable retirement because they haven't prioritized financial wellbeing in their lives.

mschaef 9y ago

> these folks are living in dying bodies If you're not, please let us know your secret.

vixen99 9y ago
Yes. Break the 'them & us' concept and solutions will present themselves.

icc97 9y ago

I think it might come back to haunt the butterfly generation, where it's fun to fly off round the world. But then you rarely create connections that are deep enough to stay with you til your death bed.

skadamou 9y ago
What exactly is the butterfly generation? I have never heard this term before. Are you referring to the book "The Butterfly Generation" by Palash Krishna Mehrotra and if so does this term have a distinctly Indian meaning or does it apply to people from other countries as well? Thanks for satisfying my curiosity! https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13432312-the-butterfly-generation https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13432312-the-butterfly-g...
- icc97 9y ago
  The butterfly generation term that I knew was from when I started work in London around 2000. [0] > 'Engaging the Butterfly Generation', the generation of kids that just won't settle, anywhere! I took it to indicate a generation of teenagers / university graduates that grew up being able to use the benefits of globalisation and to flit from one job or country to the next with ease. [0]: http://www.c21media.net/conference-event/c21-kids-content-futures/ http://www.c21media.net/conference-event/c21-kids-content-fu...
  - JBlue42 9y ago
    I did that throughout my early 20s. I'm still in regular contact with people I met 14-15 years ago. It takes effort for regular stuff. The only reason I keep my Facebook around is because it's a glorified address book and I'll hear from some of the folks from my past travels on there around holidays and birthdays. It's about the same as I talk to cousins and aunts/uncles. My core group of friends is in touch all the time. About 12 people since 2001. I don't talk with anyone from high school (pre-01). It just depends on your level of effort. I think for American kids, it's definitely worth getting out into the world and seeing a different perspective. It can only improve our country when we get outside the rhetoric/news bubble and see how things are done, for better or worse, in the rest of the world.

sandworm101 9y ago

>>> If they were suddenly young again- they could go out, make new connections, start over. I'm not so sure about that. I've met a great many elderly people who want nothing more than to rewind the clock. Given the opportunity they don't want to meet new people or do new things. They fear such experiences. That may be as symptom of being older and more frail, buy any answers to the problem wont come from trying to transform the old into the young. I don't think throwing technology at the problem will help. Nearly every elderly person I've met would much rather have a daily visit from a younger (50s) non-threatening person than even 24/7 video chat with their families.

gaius 9y ago
Given the opportunity they don't want to meet new people But what if all their old friends were young again too?

crispyambulance 9y ago

Folks following the Aubrey de Grey line of thought separate "the person" and "their body" as though the person exists as some kind of "software" running in "hardware" that is about to fail. It might not be that simple. Being suddenly young again would certainly be delightful for a while but there's a huge psychological burden that comes with living for a long time. While it may be possible to extend the life of the body, there are related philosophical considerations that the "live-forever" folks IMHO are flippantly dismissing. It makes me concerned that in the distant future we could find ourselves as a society with ever more problems that we're not equipped to deal with. We'll all likely be dead by then, but it makes for a thought.

erasemus 9y ago
>there's a huge psychological burden that comes with living for a long time What is the burden? A burden I foresee is that people are going to have to choose between life extension and assisted suicide.
gknoy 9y ago
I think many people would prefer to be in a body that Doesn't Age/Die Without Permission, and then figure out how to handle the problems later. I'm not saying that's a _wise_ choice, and it could certainly have issues for wealth accumulation, but staving off a certain thing (death) in exchange for nebulous maybe-bad-things (hypothetical future problems) is something that humans seem to be notoriously bad about reasoning about. Hell, I type this, and I fall for it too: I'd much rather be able to live forever, without fear of Alzheimer's or a failing body. I have no idea how I'd pay for that, but I'd be a liar if I said I didn't want to Not Die.
gaius 9y ago
Being suddenly young again would certainly be delightful for a while but there's a huge psychological burden that comes with living for a long time Such as what exactly? No-one knows - including you - because no-one has ever run old "software" on young/rejuvenated "hardware". I think that 99% of people in failing hardware given the option to try their 18- or even 30-year old bodies again would jump at the chance and worry about vague hand-wavy "psychological burdens" later - or perhaps not ever if the new body didn't age...

jlj 9y ago

No one ever says "I wished I worked more" from their deathbed. Prioritizing money and status ahead of family and friends is a personal decision. Business and personal success can coexist in capitalism but many people choose the former over the latter and assume they are mutually exclusive. I made that choice out of college and it took me until my mid 30's to realize it. It's really hard to re-learn how to go the other way, and I imagine it's even harder for someone who operates that way their whole adult life into retirement.

rxhernandez 9y ago
> No one ever says "I wished I worked more" from their deathbed. I did, well at least on what could have been and what I thought was my death bed. I was very ill for months and when I started to feel like I wasn't ever going to get better I tried my best to scramble to produce publishable research.
TheCoelacanth 9y ago
Maybe not in those words, but I would bet there are a lot of people who wish that they had more financial security throughout their life. It's much harder to maintain relationships without financial security. One of the leading causes of divorce is extended periods of unemployment. There is also some evidence that men who work longer hours tend to have happier marriages. That would suggest that it might at least sometimes be a rational decision to put in extra hours even if you are optimizing for relationship quality rather than money or status.
gaius 9y ago
No one ever says "I wished I worked more" from their deathbed. No-one wishes they'd spent more time at some pointless job sure, but I'll wager there are many who wish they'd pursued some opportunity with greater effort.
bartedinburgh 9y ago
Except those who die in poverty after a miserable retirement because they haven't prioritized financial wellbeing in their lives.