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"Four and twenty" is idiomatic English in that it survives in the children's nursery rhyme Sing a Song of Sixpence. It was composed around the same time that W

"Four and twenty" is idiomatic English in that it survives in the children's nursery rhyme Sing a Song of Sixpence. It was composed around the same time that William of Orange reigned as king of the UK, so maybe that's a Dutch influence on our language! I only know this because Four'n Twenty is the unofficial national dish of Melbourne. :)

hellofunk 9y ago
Dutch in general is much closer to Shakespeare's era of English, which is not modern English. Shakespeare includes phrases like "he knows not what he does" instead of modern English, "he doesn't know what he is doing." The "is ..." conjugations are a relatively recent invention in English, and Dutch more closely follows old English-style construction.
- icc97 9y ago
  I did try to imagine myself speaking Shakespearian English at times in the beginning. That's actually the problem of translating Shakespeare into Dutch, it just sounds normal and less romantic. "Romeo, where are you?" If they'd translate it into old Dutch [0] it would give a better feel of the language but still wouldn't be correct as Old Dutch died out in the 12th century. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Dutch https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Dutch
  - mercutio2 9y ago
    “Wherefore art thou Romeo” isn’t confusing to modern English speakers because of the archaic “art thou”, it’s confusing to modern English speakers because it actually means “why are you [named] Romeo [implicitly, Montague]”, the where- prefix has nothing to do with location. It’s extremely common for modern speakers to be unaware what wherefore means.
icc97 9y ago
Yeah, that's why I used that example :) But it's really hard when you have to translate fluently A better example is four and seventy, I always hear forty seven then have to realise I'm wrong and switch. People say their phone numbers in pairs so you have to do this switching very fast as people are used to repeating their number.

hellofunk 9y ago

Dutch in general is much closer to Shakespeare's era of English, which is not modern English. Shakespeare includes phrases like "he knows not what he does" instead of modern English, "he doesn't know what he is doing." The "is ..." conjugations are a relatively recent invention in English, and Dutch more closely follows old English-style construction.

icc97 9y ago
I did try to imagine myself speaking Shakespearian English at times in the beginning. That's actually the problem of translating Shakespeare into Dutch, it just sounds normal and less romantic. "Romeo, where are you?" If they'd translate it into old Dutch [0] it would give a better feel of the language but still wouldn't be correct as Old Dutch died out in the 12th century. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Dutch https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Dutch
- mercutio2 9y ago
  “Wherefore art thou Romeo” isn’t confusing to modern English speakers because of the archaic “art thou”, it’s confusing to modern English speakers because it actually means “why are you [named] Romeo [implicitly, Montague]”, the where- prefix has nothing to do with location. It’s extremely common for modern speakers to be unaware what wherefore means.

icc97 9y ago

Yeah, that's why I used that example :) But it's really hard when you have to translate fluently A better example is four and seventy, I always hear forty seven then have to realise I'm wrong and switch. People say their phone numbers in pairs so you have to do this switching very fast as people are used to repeating their number.