4 ms·

Not anywhere near proficient in either, but personally found it more difficult to approach Mandarin because of tones and the writing. At least with Japanese, y

Not anywhere near proficient in either, but personally found it more difficult to approach Mandarin because of tones and the writing. At least with Japanese, you can start practicing by writing/saying aloud romaji and begin to make sense of pronunciation (later transitioning away from romaji entirely once you have learned hirigana). With mandarin there is no 'romaji' and as such you can't just practice by writing down Chinese words and reading them aloud as you would an english word (cause tones). Maybe it's different once you get over the initial hump in Mandarin. So would it be fair to assume that Mandarin is easier 'long term' versus Japanese; ie- Japanese easy to start/learn, hard to master - Mandarin difficult to start/learn but easier to master?

KennyCason 9y ago
I think Chinese is also easier to get started with. Chinese actually does have a "romaji" like alphabet called "pinyin". Most Chinese books will start with pinyin and will often have either pinyin written above the characters early on, or have a dialogue section in characters and another section in pinyin. Example: "I am American" -> 我是美国人(is is america person) -> wo shi meiguoren You could also write the pinyin as "wo3 shi4 mei3guo2ren2" or as "wǒs hì měiguórén", but the tones aren't usually only written in textbooks. If two Chinese people are typing pinyin (because they don't have access to Chinese input method), they won't write the tones and will write it as my first pinyin example. I actually think, all-around, with the exception of pronunciation Chinese is easier. Both are difficult to master due to their deep and unique cultures/histories/ traits. Anecdotally speaking, I have a good number of friends/acquaintances who have come back from China/Taiwan/Japan and I feel that on average the people speak better Chinese than the Japanese counterparts. I also studied through business Japanese and Chinese in college and lived/studied in Japan. My finding was that the students in advanced Chinese class could speak significantly more than that students in Japanese class could speak. This did imo, have a bit to do with the differences in how the classes were taught, but it didn't seem to account for everything. This is just from my anecdotal experience, and opinion from myself learning/speaking both languages for the past 13 years, so I wouldn't be surprised if others have a different experience.
- mrschwabe 9y ago
  Thanks for those insights - that is interesting and very helpful. Seems you have more Chinese background so you may be a tad biased but please give your honest opinion (which is valued greatly, given your extensive experience!): which is more fun to speak & listen to, Japanese or Mandarin ? Also you're planning to visit/live in HK do you plan to (or already) learn(ing) Cantonese ?
  - KennyCason 9y ago
    I have much more experience with Japanese. I started Japanese a year earlier than Chinese and studied them concurrently after that. I also studied abroad in Japan for a year. I have also written/read/used Japanese considerably more. While I did concurrently speak/use Chinese often during that period, I found I had to put less effort into Chinese. (We're still talking 1000s of hours). Nowadays, I use Chinese much more frequently because my wife is Chinese and our language-of-communication is Chinese. We've been married for 6.5 years, so that certainly helped my Chinese ramp up and overtake my Japanese. However, in terms of scientific vocabulary, only until recently, my Japanese vocab was greater than my Chinese. I've been reading many more books and forcing myself to write more in Chinese to build up my skills. (Have a few random posts on my blog) It's amazing how important all aspects: listening/reading/writing/speaking are important to learning a language. :)
    - mrschwabe 9y ago
      Thanks again KC ! Inspiring stuff. Bookmarked your blog for future reading.
  - KennyCason 9y ago
    In regards to learning Cantonese, I have no immediate plans to learn Cantonese and would rather continue learning Korean. But for the next block of foreseeable future I've decided to double down on Chinese/Japanese so that I'm not just maintaining, but am improving them. As to which is more fun to speak. This is difficult. I really enjoy both. I think because I have spent more time with Japanese people, and I find their culture to be a bit more wild, I have more fun with Japanese. Japanese are often conservative on the outside, and much more liberal/wild once you're on the inner group. I also find Japanese people to be more willing to hang with foreigners while Chinese are a bit more cliquish. Though much of this I strongly feel this is largely in part of my lack of long experience of living in China. I have noticed that the more I am in China and around Chinese people, I start enjoying it more as well. But at this point, it all just feels "part of my life", and I'm sure some of the appeal of Japanese was biased as it was my first major foreign experience.

KennyCason 9y ago

I think Chinese is also easier to get started with. Chinese actually does have a "romaji" like alphabet called "pinyin". Most Chinese books will start with pinyin and will often have either pinyin written above the characters early on, or have a dialogue section in characters and another section in pinyin. Example: "I am American" -> 我是美国人(is is america person) -> wo shi meiguoren You could also write the pinyin as "wo3 shi4 mei3guo2ren2" or as "wǒs hì měiguórén", but the tones aren't usually only written in textbooks. If two Chinese people are typing pinyin (because they don't have access to Chinese input method), they won't write the tones and will write it as my first pinyin example. I actually think, all-around, with the exception of pronunciation Chinese is easier. Both are difficult to master due to their deep and unique cultures/histories/ traits. Anecdotally speaking, I have a good number of friends/acquaintances who have come back from China/Taiwan/Japan and I feel that on average the people speak better Chinese than the Japanese counterparts. I also studied through business Japanese and Chinese in college and lived/studied in Japan. My finding was that the students in advanced Chinese class could speak significantly more than that students in Japanese class could speak. This did imo, have a bit to do with the differences in how the classes were taught, but it didn't seem to account for everything. This is just from my anecdotal experience, and opinion from myself learning/speaking both languages for the past 13 years, so I wouldn't be surprised if others have a different experience.

mrschwabe 9y ago
Thanks for those insights - that is interesting and very helpful. Seems you have more Chinese background so you may be a tad biased but please give your honest opinion (which is valued greatly, given your extensive experience!): which is more fun to speak & listen to, Japanese or Mandarin ? Also you're planning to visit/live in HK do you plan to (or already) learn(ing) Cantonese ?
- KennyCason 9y ago
  I have much more experience with Japanese. I started Japanese a year earlier than Chinese and studied them concurrently after that. I also studied abroad in Japan for a year. I have also written/read/used Japanese considerably more. While I did concurrently speak/use Chinese often during that period, I found I had to put less effort into Chinese. (We're still talking 1000s of hours). Nowadays, I use Chinese much more frequently because my wife is Chinese and our language-of-communication is Chinese. We've been married for 6.5 years, so that certainly helped my Chinese ramp up and overtake my Japanese. However, in terms of scientific vocabulary, only until recently, my Japanese vocab was greater than my Chinese. I've been reading many more books and forcing myself to write more in Chinese to build up my skills. (Have a few random posts on my blog) It's amazing how important all aspects: listening/reading/writing/speaking are important to learning a language. :)
  - mrschwabe 9y ago
    Thanks again KC ! Inspiring stuff. Bookmarked your blog for future reading.
- KennyCason 9y ago
  In regards to learning Cantonese, I have no immediate plans to learn Cantonese and would rather continue learning Korean. But for the next block of foreseeable future I've decided to double down on Chinese/Japanese so that I'm not just maintaining, but am improving them. As to which is more fun to speak. This is difficult. I really enjoy both. I think because I have spent more time with Japanese people, and I find their culture to be a bit more wild, I have more fun with Japanese. Japanese are often conservative on the outside, and much more liberal/wild once you're on the inner group. I also find Japanese people to be more willing to hang with foreigners while Chinese are a bit more cliquish. Though much of this I strongly feel this is largely in part of my lack of long experience of living in China. I have noticed that the more I am in China and around Chinese people, I start enjoying it more as well. But at this point, it all just feels "part of my life", and I'm sure some of the appeal of Japanese was biased as it was my first major foreign experience.