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I saw a few comments regarding the difficulty of languages within Category V. Particularly Japanese/Chinese. I speak Mandarin Chinese and Japanese on a near da
by KennyCason 9y ago
I saw a few comments regarding the difficulty of languages within Category V. Particularly Japanese/Chinese.
I speak Mandarin Chinese and Japanese on a near daily basis, and definitely consider Japanese to be more difficult than Chinese. Nowadays Chinese everyday, previously Japanese everyday. I find both languages and cultures to be very fun and will point out some of the key differences that I think make Chinese easier than Japanese. I also encourage anyone to jump in either of the languages and have fun. It has been life changing for me. :)
- Chinese grammar is far simpler (less fluff) and somewhat maps to similar word ordering as English. Japanese also has lots of fluff and rigid rules for grammar, and the word ordering/sentence structures are much more alien than Chinese to an English speaker.
For example, English: "I will go to the store", Chinese: "I go store", Japanese: "I SUBJECT_MARKER store DIRECTION_MARKER go". (fun fact, Japanese grammar is not actually backwards as people often say, it's more like a bubble of nested clauses, can elaborate more if anyone cares.)
- Chinese verbs/adjectives for example, don't conjugate, you just add a few context words. Japanese, while logical, still has more conjugation rules/exceptions (though not near as awful as English)
For example, English: "I was a Marine", Chinese: "I before is Marine", Japanese: "I SM Marine was".
- Japanese formalities are far more deep/complicated than Chinese. Yes, Chinese has formalities, but anyone who has done serious deep dives in Japanese business / honorifics will understand.
- Chinese while written has a high barrier to entry because it's all characters, they at least with very very few exceptions, all have only one reading. This makes memorizing them much easier than Japanese. In Japanese, you have two forms of reading (onyomi & kunyomi), you can think of it as the Chinese & Japanese readings. Most characters have at least 2 readings, and some even more. This makes memorizing them more complicated.
- Chinese characters are simplified, thus easier to write.
- Japanese in addition to Kanji (Chinese characters), also has 2 phonetic systems, katakana (for foreign/loan words), hiragana (Japanese words). And hiragana gets mixed in with kanji (loosely as the conjugated part of verbs and other grammar). A new learner of Japanese would be excited to learn hiragana, only to find out, no one writes in all hiragana (which would be awful to read). So, they end up not being able to really read much, until they start learning lots of kanji. So the phonetic systems only really help when you are writing and forget a kanji. But honestly, you'll find that you just type both languages 99% of the time so it doesn't matter as much. Except that I type Chinese much faster since words are literally just shorter.
- The hard parts of Chinese are the tones. Japanese pronunciation is by far easier. Cantonese pronunciation is harder than Mandarin as there are also more tones. (to me at least)
- Both China and Japan have deep histories and cultures, which finds themselves at the heart of both languages. Both will take many many years to sink in and feel comfortable.
- Another cultural item but I find Japanese people much more willing to speak to foreigners in Japanese, and have patience with bad Japanese. Chinese people are much more direct and likely to laugh at your Chinese pronunciation or make fun of your speaking early on, or even just never speak to you in Chinese and prefer to use English. This happens in both cultures, and the better you get the more likely both countries will be willing to speak in their native languages with you, so just push through it, and don't take it personal. When you're abroad, they'll be much more likely to speak their native language with you since most people abroad won't be able to speak very proficient English. Which is one of many reasons why studying abroad can be hugely helpful to learning the language. I also recommend to just be conscious of whether or not that native wants to use speak with you. Some people try and force it.
I have also studied Korean and put it on par with Japanese, and thankfully because I know Chinese/Japanese characters, I can more easily remember/guess many Korean words which are actually rooted in Chinese. I feel bad for people trying to brute force memorize hangul words (or any alphabet to be honest)
- germainelol 9y agoIf the article is about speaking skills, I'm surprised to see these languages as the most difficult. Most English speakers I know that have lived/worked in Korea/Japan/China have found it rather easy to pick up the language. Writing is another matter of course... (I live in HK btw)
- KennyCason 9y agoI think the primary focus was relative difficulty amongst languages. I found picking up conversational Chinese to be about 1.5-2x easier than Japanese due to how different Japanese grammar was than English. Similarly, Spanish is far easier than both. Fun side note, My trip to HK was interesting because people told me English would get me around easily, but when I arrived I found Mandarin far more conveneient which surprised me. (I’m planning on visiting HK sometime next year)
- mrschwabe 9y agoNot anywhere near proficient in either, but personally found it more difficult to approach Mandarin because of tones and the writing. At least with Japanese, you can start practicing by writing/saying aloud romaji and begin to make sense of pronunciation (later transitioning away from romaji entirely once you have learned hirigana). With mandarin there is no 'romaji' and as such you can't just practice by writing down Chinese words and reading them aloud as you would an english word (cause tones). Maybe it's different once you get over the initial hump in Mandarin. So would it be fair to assume that Mandarin is easier 'long term' versus Japanese; ie- Japanese easy to start/learn, hard to master - Mandarin difficult to start/learn but easier to master?
- KennyCason 9y agoI think Chinese is also easier to get started with. Chinese actually does have a "romaji" like alphabet called "pinyin". Most Chinese books will start with pinyin and will often have either pinyin written above the characters early on, or have a dialogue section in characters and another section in pinyin. Example: "I am American" -> 我是美国人(is is america person) -> wo shi meiguoren You could also write the pinyin as "wo3 shi4 mei3guo2ren2" or as "wǒs hì měiguórén", but the tones aren't usually only written in textbooks. If two Chinese people are typing pinyin (because they don't have access to Chinese input method), they won't write the tones and will write it as my first pinyin example. I actually think, all-around, with the exception of pronunciation Chinese is easier. Both are difficult to master due to their deep and unique cultures/histories/ traits. Anecdotally speaking, I have a good number of friends/acquaintances who have come back from China/Taiwan/Japan and I feel that on average the people speak better Chinese than the Japanese counterparts. I also studied through business Japanese and Chinese in college and lived/studied in Japan. My finding was that the students in advanced Chinese class could speak significantly more than that students in Japanese class could speak. This did imo, have a bit to do with the differences in how the classes were taught, but it didn't seem to account for everything. This is just from my anecdotal experience, and opinion from myself learning/speaking both languages for the past 13 years, so I wouldn't be surprised if others have a different experience.