5 ms·

The culture of the US has 2 parts that really don't like national IDs. A strong distrust of the federal government and a large number of evangelical christians.

The culture of the US has 2 parts that really don't like national IDs. A strong distrust of the federal government and a large number of evangelical christians. The natural distrust means that people generally don't want to give anything more to the federal government in general so it would take enormous political capital to add this. Second, the evangelical christians take end times prophesies from Revalation in the Bible very seriously. They believe that a national ID card is the "mark of the beast" that will be how the world is enslaved. It's a bit weird to outsiders, but it's a surprisingly common belief. https://www.thefamilyinternational.org/en/viewpoints/future/65/ https://www.thefamilyinternational.org/en/viewpoints/future/...

morganvachon 9y ago
> " It's a bit weird to outsiders, but it's a surprisingly common belief." It's a bit weird to some of us Christians, too. :-) Some of us realize that the Bible is a book of metaphors and guidelines, not a literal future-history account. What John saw in his visions and how to interpret that has been a major source of discussion among religious scholars for a very long time now. I am opposed to a national ID on a very specific point: It can be used as a tool for voter suppression if not done correctly.
- madamelic 9y ago
  > Some of us realize that the Bible is a book of metaphors and guidelines, not a literal future-history account. The first time someone told me that the story of Adam and Eve was allegorical and not literal, it blew my mind. I had grown up and been taught "literalism", in that everything that Bible said was literally the truth and not simply a story.
  - Declanomous 9y ago
    Serious question, how did you rationalize contradictions in the bible? The story of Adam and Eve directly contradicts the story of creation told immediately prior. The Bible didn't make any sense to me until I took a religious studies course and learned that the old testament is basically the verbal tradition of the ancient Jewish people in written form. I had tried reading the bible when I was much younger, and the contradictions were so absurd I started highlighting them, and I ran out of highlighter before I ran out of Bible. I'm still not religious, but at least religion kind of makes sense to me now.
- irhd 9y ago
  > I am opposed to a national ID on a very specific point: It can be used as a tool for voter suppression if not done correctly. Having a free, low barrier, nationally accepted ID would help to disarm the weapon of voter suppression by ID demands.
  - morganvachon 9y ago
    > "Having a free, low barrier" I agree, but the current administration would never allow either metric, because they don't want voter suppression to go away, they want to broaden and empower it. I am wholeheartedly disgusted with the state of our national government but I feel powerless to do anything about it. I vote (usually Independent/Libertarian/Democrat in that order as available on the ballot) and I contribute to organizations, but I'm just one person in a deep red state.
- yongjik 9y ago
  > I am opposed to a national ID on a very specific point: It can be used as a tool for voter suppression if not done correctly. We can solve it by making it the duty of the government to provide everyone with ID cards, not the other way. This is an even easier problem than universal healthcare. But of course, "the government is always inefficient!" crowd will fight tooth and nail to keep it from happening.
- felipelemos 9y ago
  The fact that almost any other democratic country in the world have a national id for decades (since 1965 in Brazil for ex) demonstrate that there is no obstacle in that.
  - samhoggnz 9y ago
    Neither New Zealand nor Australia have national ID cards, for what it's worth.
- rdtsc 9y ago
  > It can be used as a tool for voter suppression if not done correctly. I can see that somewhat but voter ID requirements and legislation in specific states can already be used for it. A free national ID would make it easier and would even fix or prevent abuses from individual states. Besides if countries like India, which have more corruption, more poverty and fight with such issues like open defecation can manage to provide IDs to more than 95% of its population (and some states have close to 100%) surely we can do it as well.
  - morganvachon 9y ago
    In the past I would have agreed that state-level voter suppression was more likely, but this administration is pure evil and would potentially be far worse given that kind of power.
creaghpatr 9y ago
~10% of Americans don't have any kind of photo ID, although I've never heard the religious angle before http://www.projectvote.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/AMERICANS-WITH-PHOTO-ID-Research-Memo-February-2015.pdf http://www.projectvote.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/AMERIC...
- rdtsc 9y ago
  What do you think is preventing them getting photo IDs? The cost of it? Maybe it can be free or subsidized for lower income citizens. Somehow India, a much more poor country solved this mostly, it would seem we can solve it too.
irhd 9y ago
maybe policy shouldn't be based on a minority of insane religious zealots.
- krapp 9y ago
  They're not a minority in the US, either politically or culturally.
  - irhd 9y ago
    Evangelicals are.

morganvachon 9y ago

> " It's a bit weird to outsiders, but it's a surprisingly common belief." It's a bit weird to some of us Christians, too. :-) Some of us realize that the Bible is a book of metaphors and guidelines, not a literal future-history account. What John saw in his visions and how to interpret that has been a major source of discussion among religious scholars for a very long time now. I am opposed to a national ID on a very specific point: It can be used as a tool for voter suppression if not done correctly.

madamelic 9y ago
> Some of us realize that the Bible is a book of metaphors and guidelines, not a literal future-history account. The first time someone told me that the story of Adam and Eve was allegorical and not literal, it blew my mind. I had grown up and been taught "literalism", in that everything that Bible said was literally the truth and not simply a story.
- Declanomous 9y ago
  Serious question, how did you rationalize contradictions in the bible? The story of Adam and Eve directly contradicts the story of creation told immediately prior. The Bible didn't make any sense to me until I took a religious studies course and learned that the old testament is basically the verbal tradition of the ancient Jewish people in written form. I had tried reading the bible when I was much younger, and the contradictions were so absurd I started highlighting them, and I ran out of highlighter before I ran out of Bible. I'm still not religious, but at least religion kind of makes sense to me now.
irhd 9y ago
> I am opposed to a national ID on a very specific point: It can be used as a tool for voter suppression if not done correctly. Having a free, low barrier, nationally accepted ID would help to disarm the weapon of voter suppression by ID demands.
- morganvachon 9y ago
  > "Having a free, low barrier" I agree, but the current administration would never allow either metric, because they don't want voter suppression to go away, they want to broaden and empower it. I am wholeheartedly disgusted with the state of our national government but I feel powerless to do anything about it. I vote (usually Independent/Libertarian/Democrat in that order as available on the ballot) and I contribute to organizations, but I'm just one person in a deep red state.
yongjik 9y ago
> I am opposed to a national ID on a very specific point: It can be used as a tool for voter suppression if not done correctly. We can solve it by making it the duty of the government to provide everyone with ID cards, not the other way. This is an even easier problem than universal healthcare. But of course, "the government is always inefficient!" crowd will fight tooth and nail to keep it from happening.
felipelemos 9y ago
The fact that almost any other democratic country in the world have a national id for decades (since 1965 in Brazil for ex) demonstrate that there is no obstacle in that.
- samhoggnz 9y ago
  Neither New Zealand nor Australia have national ID cards, for what it's worth.
rdtsc 9y ago
> It can be used as a tool for voter suppression if not done correctly. I can see that somewhat but voter ID requirements and legislation in specific states can already be used for it. A free national ID would make it easier and would even fix or prevent abuses from individual states. Besides if countries like India, which have more corruption, more poverty and fight with such issues like open defecation can manage to provide IDs to more than 95% of its population (and some states have close to 100%) surely we can do it as well.
- morganvachon 9y ago
  In the past I would have agreed that state-level voter suppression was more likely, but this administration is pure evil and would potentially be far worse given that kind of power.

creaghpatr 9y ago

~10% of Americans don't have any kind of photo ID, although I've never heard the religious angle before http://www.projectvote.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/AMERICANS-WITH-PHOTO-ID-Research-Memo-February-2015.pdf http://www.projectvote.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/AMERIC...

rdtsc 9y ago
What do you think is preventing them getting photo IDs? The cost of it? Maybe it can be free or subsidized for lower income citizens. Somehow India, a much more poor country solved this mostly, it would seem we can solve it too.

irhd 9y ago

maybe policy shouldn't be based on a minority of insane religious zealots.

krapp 9y ago
They're not a minority in the US, either politically or culturally.
- irhd 9y ago
  Evangelicals are.