4 ms·

Hopefully he gets some money out of this. Can't imagine being grabbed, held in a cell somewhere, and then told I had to be deported all of the sudden. > Carril

by rdtsc 9y ago

Hopefully he gets some money out of this. Can't imagine being grabbed, held in a cell somewhere, and then told I had to be deported all of the sudden. > Carrillo said his son brought a passport and a certificate of citizenship the government issued Carrillo but that ICE officers refused to review the documents. Well that's just baffling. What exactly would they consider proof of citizenship if a passport and the certificate doesn't do it. What would it take? What if he didn't have a passport. Many people I know don't have one or have an expired one. Certainly not a requirement to have one. > The refusal by ICE officials to listen to Carrillo’s claims of citizenship appeared to violate an agency policy that requires officers to thoroughly and quickly investigate such claims It also violates decency and common sense as well, and veers into plain old brutality. Rant: One thing I don't understand is why don't people have national ID cards in US. Most countries I know of have them, here it is a complicated mess of drivers license, SSN, birth certificates, each states makes their own ID card thing for those that don't drive. Every single time elections come around there is talk of ID cards and supposed voter fraud for months afterwards, with everyone pointing fingers and insinuating things. Then there are cases like these. People's identities are stolen based on the stupid SSN number and a name, most of those are already on the black market somewhere already.

losvedir 9y ago
Hopefully he gets some money out of this. Can't imagine being grabbed, held in a cell somewhere, and then told I had to be deported all of the sudden. From the article: > On Wednesday, attorneys for Carrillo announced a settlement deal in which the government will pay him $20,000 to resolve a civil lawsuit he filed over the arrest.
- rdtsc 9y ago
  Saw that. I wish he'd gotten more than that. $20k seems like a slap on the wrist to the agency.
  - losvedir 9y ago
    For being detained for 4 days, though? It seems reasonable to me for mistakenly arresting him. It doesn't excuse what sounds like unkind and rude behavior from the officers, though, which they shouldn't be doing even when really deporting someone.
    - rdtsc 9y ago
      4 days of mental anguish and distress is worth more than that. It's a stress and pain that will stay with a person for a long time. It also has to be enough of a deterrent so that the agency is more careful next time.
    - irhd 9y ago
      Sounds extremely low. They violated his rights.
aero142 9y ago
The culture of the US has 2 parts that really don't like national IDs. A strong distrust of the federal government and a large number of evangelical christians. The natural distrust means that people generally don't want to give anything more to the federal government in general so it would take enormous political capital to add this. Second, the evangelical christians take end times prophesies from Revalation in the Bible very seriously. They believe that a national ID card is the "mark of the beast" that will be how the world is enslaved. It's a bit weird to outsiders, but it's a surprisingly common belief. https://www.thefamilyinternational.org/en/viewpoints/future/65/ https://www.thefamilyinternational.org/en/viewpoints/future/...
- morganvachon 9y ago
  > " It's a bit weird to outsiders, but it's a surprisingly common belief." It's a bit weird to some of us Christians, too. :-) Some of us realize that the Bible is a book of metaphors and guidelines, not a literal future-history account. What John saw in his visions and how to interpret that has been a major source of discussion among religious scholars for a very long time now. I am opposed to a national ID on a very specific point: It can be used as a tool for voter suppression if not done correctly.
  - madamelic 9y ago
    > Some of us realize that the Bible is a book of metaphors and guidelines, not a literal future-history account. The first time someone told me that the story of Adam and Eve was allegorical and not literal, it blew my mind. I had grown up and been taught "literalism", in that everything that Bible said was literally the truth and not simply a story.
    - Declanomous 9y ago
      Serious question, how did you rationalize contradictions in the bible? The story of Adam and Eve directly contradicts the story of creation told immediately prior. The Bible didn't make any sense to me until I took a religious studies course and learned that the old testament is basically the verbal tradition of the ancient Jewish people in written form. I had tried reading the bible when I was much younger, and the contradictions were so absurd I started highlighting them, and I ran out of highlighter before I ran out of Bible. I'm still not religious, but at least religion kind of makes sense to me now.
CodeWriter23 9y ago
In most states, no form of ID is required to vote. You walk in to your polling place and tell them your name and address. The vetting takes place during the voter registration process which either puts your name on the Voter Roll or not. You walk into the designated place that has your name in the book, and then you sign in as having received a ballot, on the line listing your name and address. The last poll worker who asked me for an ID, I told them ID was not required in order to vote. They handed me my ballot, without even a single word of argument. It's not illegal for them to ask either; it's just a form of voter suppression instituted by either the Country Registrar, the District Supervisor or the Precinct Head.
- felipelemos 9y ago
  How can you expect to not have fraud?
  - CodeWriter23 9y ago
    Right, because it’s easy to guess someone’s name and address and polling place. And to mimick their signature, which can be easily scanned and compared with the registration form. The Registrar can invalidate a voter’s registration on that basis. The myth of voter fraud in the US has been debunked time and time again, just Google it for yourself. Voter fraud is a big distraction from the real Election Fraud that’s going on. Like the Democrat-appointed Country Registrar in Los Angeles who neglected to inform Precinct Leaders by law they were supposed to display the write-in candidates (like Bernie Sanders) on the table where people sign in. I toured 3 different precincts in my neighborhood and got into it with each Precinct Leader and showed them the CA Election Code to convince them to properly display the write-in lists. And then I tracked down the District Election Supervisor who told me no instructions were given about write-ins and he was upset about it too. Or like the 5 Berner’s I know personally who had their registration changed to mail-in, through no action on their part. The dirty trick there is the voter is handed a provisional ballot when they show up at their polling place.
    - felipelemos 9y ago
irhd 9y ago
> It also violates decency and common sense as well, and veers into plain old brutality. Yup. This should result in a large settlement, and punishment ranging from minor discipline to jail time for the officers involved.
WalterBright 9y ago
> why don't people have national ID cards in US The passport serves that.
- rdtsc 9y ago
  Passports cost money and are only issued to citizens. An ID card could be issued to permanent residents, long term visa holders even. It would be smaller in size, have a public key based digital signature chip on it, etc. Basically more of a non-crappy social security card.

by rdtsc 9y ago

losvedir 9y ago

Hopefully he gets some money out of this. Can't imagine being grabbed, held in a cell somewhere, and then told I had to be deported all of the sudden. From the article: > On Wednesday, attorneys for Carrillo announced a settlement deal in which the government will pay him $20,000 to resolve a civil lawsuit he filed over the arrest.

rdtsc 9y ago
Saw that. I wish he'd gotten more than that. $20k seems like a slap on the wrist to the agency.
- losvedir 9y ago
  For being detained for 4 days, though? It seems reasonable to me for mistakenly arresting him. It doesn't excuse what sounds like unkind and rude behavior from the officers, though, which they shouldn't be doing even when really deporting someone.
  - rdtsc 9y ago
    4 days of mental anguish and distress is worth more than that. It's a stress and pain that will stay with a person for a long time. It also has to be enough of a deterrent so that the agency is more careful next time.
  - irhd 9y ago
    Sounds extremely low. They violated his rights.

aero142 9y ago

The culture of the US has 2 parts that really don't like national IDs. A strong distrust of the federal government and a large number of evangelical christians. The natural distrust means that people generally don't want to give anything more to the federal government in general so it would take enormous political capital to add this. Second, the evangelical christians take end times prophesies from Revalation in the Bible very seriously. They believe that a national ID card is the "mark of the beast" that will be how the world is enslaved. It's a bit weird to outsiders, but it's a surprisingly common belief. https://www.thefamilyinternational.org/en/viewpoints/future/65/ https://www.thefamilyinternational.org/en/viewpoints/future/...

morganvachon 9y ago
> " It's a bit weird to outsiders, but it's a surprisingly common belief." It's a bit weird to some of us Christians, too. :-) Some of us realize that the Bible is a book of metaphors and guidelines, not a literal future-history account. What John saw in his visions and how to interpret that has been a major source of discussion among religious scholars for a very long time now. I am opposed to a national ID on a very specific point: It can be used as a tool for voter suppression if not done correctly.
- madamelic 9y ago
  > Some of us realize that the Bible is a book of metaphors and guidelines, not a literal future-history account. The first time someone told me that the story of Adam and Eve was allegorical and not literal, it blew my mind. I had grown up and been taught "literalism", in that everything that Bible said was literally the truth and not simply a story.
  - Declanomous 9y ago
    Serious question, how did you rationalize contradictions in the bible? The story of Adam and Eve directly contradicts the story of creation told immediately prior. The Bible didn't make any sense to me until I took a religious studies course and learned that the old testament is basically the verbal tradition of the ancient Jewish people in written form. I had tried reading the bible when I was much younger, and the contradictions were so absurd I started highlighting them, and I ran out of highlighter before I ran out of Bible. I'm still not religious, but at least religion kind of makes sense to me now.

CodeWriter23 9y ago

In most states, no form of ID is required to vote. You walk in to your polling place and tell them your name and address. The vetting takes place during the voter registration process which either puts your name on the Voter Roll or not. You walk into the designated place that has your name in the book, and then you sign in as having received a ballot, on the line listing your name and address. The last poll worker who asked me for an ID, I told them ID was not required in order to vote. They handed me my ballot, without even a single word of argument. It's not illegal for them to ask either; it's just a form of voter suppression instituted by either the Country Registrar, the District Supervisor or the Precinct Head.

felipelemos 9y ago
How can you expect to not have fraud?
- CodeWriter23 9y ago
  Right, because it’s easy to guess someone’s name and address and polling place. And to mimick their signature, which can be easily scanned and compared with the registration form. The Registrar can invalidate a voter’s registration on that basis. The myth of voter fraud in the US has been debunked time and time again, just Google it for yourself. Voter fraud is a big distraction from the real Election Fraud that’s going on. Like the Democrat-appointed Country Registrar in Los Angeles who neglected to inform Precinct Leaders by law they were supposed to display the write-in candidates (like Bernie Sanders) on the table where people sign in. I toured 3 different precincts in my neighborhood and got into it with each Precinct Leader and showed them the CA Election Code to convince them to properly display the write-in lists. And then I tracked down the District Election Supervisor who told me no instructions were given about write-ins and he was upset about it too. Or like the 5 Berner’s I know personally who had their registration changed to mail-in, through no action on their part. The dirty trick there is the voter is handed a provisional ballot when they show up at their polling place.
  - felipelemos 9y ago

irhd 9y ago

> It also violates decency and common sense as well, and veers into plain old brutality. Yup. This should result in a large settlement, and punishment ranging from minor discipline to jail time for the officers involved.

WalterBright 9y ago

> why don't people have national ID cards in US The passport serves that.

rdtsc 9y ago
Passports cost money and are only issued to citizens. An ID card could be issued to permanent residents, long term visa holders even. It would be smaller in size, have a public key based digital signature chip on it, etc. Basically more of a non-crappy social security card.