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We've had all of that for aeons. The only really novel thing Bitcoin brought to the table was the consensus algorithm (which is in no way, shape, or form a com

by pdpi 9y ago

We've had all of that for aeons. The only really novel thing Bitcoin brought to the table was the consensus algorithm (which is in no way, shape, or form a complaint — it's precisely what it should be) — but that consensus algorithm only works for currencies (for a sufficiently loose definition of currency that allows for the current fees and delays). Nakamoto consensus solves the double-spend problem, but only if mining blocks gives you a reward that's denominated in the same currency as the transactions you're mining.

DennisP 9y ago
Ethereum uses essentially the same consensus algorithm for lots of things besides currencies.
- pdpi 9y ago
  My definition of "doesn't work" here is: the security guarantees that the consensus protocol provides stop applying. Just because nobody has found it worthwhile to attack Ethereum "not a currency" stuff yet doesn't mean that it's safe.
  - DennisP 9y ago
    Ethereum's consensus model makes the same security guarantees for contract operation that it does for the built-in currency; given the value of Ethereum-based tokens there's a very large bounty for anyone able to poke a hole in that. Of course this is only a guarantee that contracts will run as written, not that they're written correctly. There's a lot of research on applying high-assurance techniques to contract development but it'll be a while before that stuff is ready for production.
drcode 9y ago
OP talked about "Blockchain" not bitcoin specifically (which has more limited use cases, but that's not relevant to this thread)
- ska 9y ago
  But he's right - most of the properties of the blockchain are not novel. Distributed consensus is the novelty, which is part of the problem with people talking hyper-enthusiastically about applications that either don't require, or don't allow it.
- pdpi 9y ago
  A git history is a "blockchain" in the strict sense (A Merkle tree with branching factor = 1), so it's not a very helpful term. Bitcoin, at least, has the common decency of having a very concrete innovation as part of its value proposition, so you can discuss its merits. "blockchain" as a term used in the industry at large means so many different things that it ends up not meaning anything at all.

by pdpi 9y ago

DennisP 9y ago

Ethereum uses essentially the same consensus algorithm for lots of things besides currencies.

pdpi 9y ago
My definition of "doesn't work" here is: the security guarantees that the consensus protocol provides stop applying. Just because nobody has found it worthwhile to attack Ethereum "not a currency" stuff yet doesn't mean that it's safe.
- DennisP 9y ago
  Ethereum's consensus model makes the same security guarantees for contract operation that it does for the built-in currency; given the value of Ethereum-based tokens there's a very large bounty for anyone able to poke a hole in that. Of course this is only a guarantee that contracts will run as written, not that they're written correctly. There's a lot of research on applying high-assurance techniques to contract development but it'll be a while before that stuff is ready for production.

drcode 9y ago

OP talked about "Blockchain" not bitcoin specifically (which has more limited use cases, but that's not relevant to this thread)

ska 9y ago
But he's right - most of the properties of the blockchain are not novel. Distributed consensus is the novelty, which is part of the problem with people talking hyper-enthusiastically about applications that either don't require, or don't allow it.
pdpi 9y ago
A git history is a "blockchain" in the strict sense (A Merkle tree with branching factor = 1), so it's not a very helpful term. Bitcoin, at least, has the common decency of having a very concrete innovation as part of its value proposition, so you can discuss its merits. "blockchain" as a term used in the industry at large means so many different things that it ends up not meaning anything at all.