10 ms·

Gemini PDA: 20 years on, meet the all-new Psion Series 5

188 points by cstross 9y ago

cstross 9y ago
One thought: Back in 1997-2000, the Psion 5 was anything but niche; it was the leading paradigm for PDAs aside from the Newton/Palm tablet. (It died out due to a bad coincidence: Microsoft pre-announced the Windows CE 3 "Jupiter" platform, configured to look like a Psion killer on paper, right as Psion's CEO David Potter became seriously ill. Psion was sold off and left the field; meanwhile, WinCE 3 failed to set the world alight, and Potter survived.) But back then, selling a million PDAs meant you were huge. Integration between featurephone OS and PDA functionality still lay in the future; indeed, the leading platform, Symbian, was a direct descendant of the Psion Series 5's EPOC/32 OS. Today, we've got smartphones everywhere, but they mostly look very similar — small tablets with cameras and multitouch screen UIs. Probably not that many people will prefer a keyboard-driven PDA style of device. But there are so many more smartphone users out there that even a 1% niche market is probably bigger than Psion at their peak. Which is why Gemini is of interest: the Android market has gotten so large that it may now support odd alternative device formats.
- Cyberdog 9y ago
  But is "mini-tablet with a usable keyboard" really that odd of a device format these days? On Black Friday, I could have picked up something matching that description at a superstore for less than a C-note. It wouldn't have had the Psion lineage or perhaps not the build quality, but at the price point this device is going for, I don't really see the appeal unless that lineage really means that much to you.
  - timthorn 9y ago
    Finding a clamshell with a proper keyboard is still hard. This folds up nicely and fits in a jacket pocket.
  - stewbrew 9y ago
    What kind of device are you thinking of?
  - FullyFunctional 9y ago
    (Disclaimer: I backed this) I think the build quality and keyboard is absolutely key to this device; really if the keyboard isn't awesome, this device is a failure. Thankfully the developers appears to feel the same way. I hope to not be disappointed.
- jodrellblank 9y ago
  Probably not that many people will prefer a keyboard-driven PDA style of device An iPhone with a bluetooth keyboard doesn't feel like it's keyboard-driven, it feels like a touchscreen GUI device with a second-class accessory only for typing into textboxes. Is Android any different in regards to this "feel of being keyboard driven" - and is the Gemini customised at all around this?
  - dm319 9y ago
    I think that is something we'll have to look out for, because you're absolutely right that a phone plus bluetooth keyboard doesn't mean a good computing paradigm. They've said that they've brought in a lot of keyboard shortcuts - for example for accessing the dock applications. It looks like they're recreating the Agenda app too, which was keyboard driven (the best bit was a pop-up month calendar with a press of tab, which folded out to three months then a year with repeated presses, which could be navigated by cursor). On my android phone, a bt keyboard already has some shortcuts - like alt-tab to application switch, and I think the Windows key brings up the homescreen. You can get folders and files on the homescreen/desktop with 3rd party apps.
MrMember 9y ago
I'm really looking forward to the release of this. Im hoping to replace my phone with it, a device that dual boots Linux and Android and has a physical keyboard is like my dream phone.
- jff 9y ago
  Yeah, my phone died recently and I'm really considering replacing it with this. I can hold out on an old spare iPhone until then, I think.
jdietrich 9y ago
This looks super cool, but I'm not sure I'd use it. When the Series 5 was launched, there weren't a lot of good options for text input on mobile devices. The keyboard made a huge difference, because your alternatives were a full-size laptop, Graffiti on a Palm device or the awful resistive touchscreen on a WinCE device. The Psion 5 was the most useful productivity device that could fit in a coat pocket. Today, touchscreen keyboards work well enough that a Psion 5-sized keyboard isn't a vast improvement. For less than $30, you can buy a folding Bluetooth keyboard that is barely bigger than a phone when folded, but gives an almost full-sized keyboard when unfolded. The Gemini's fixed keyboard makes it impractical to use as a phone, but isn't as good as a folding bluetooth keyboard. Loath as I am to admit it, I think it's simply an obsolete form factor. If the keyboard snapped on magnetically, I might have given it serious consideration. As it is, I just don't see where such a device would fit into my workflow. https://www.amazon.com/iClever-Portable-Keyboard-Bluetooth-Wireless/dp/B00YWLJNPQ/ https://www.amazon.com/iClever-Portable-Keyboard-Bluetooth-W...
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  I have never seen a keyboard as small as the Psion's that felt as good. I hope they can replicate that.
  - stewbrew 9y ago
    The keyboard linked to above is a full size keyboard. The keys are quite ok. When folded, it's nearly quadratic, probably taller than a Psion 5. There are smaller versions of the keyboard that might use the same keys. While I loved my Psion 5mx and the keyboard was astonishing, especially in comparison with the Psion 3, I don't think it was better than these cheap Bluetooth keyboards.
    - throwanem 9y ago
      Even the Palm folding keyboards - especially the rebranded Stowaway XT, but not excluding the original three-fold Portable - were better by far than cheap Bluetooth keyboards are today. It's not even a contest. Sure, for a few keystrokes here and there, you don't really feel the difference - but if you're spending more than a few minutes a day typing on it, you surely do.
maxxxxx 9y ago
I loved my Psion. I could actually use it to write documents or spreadsheets on a plane without problems. The battery also lasted really long. I guess the success of this may be defined by the quality of the keyboard. The Psion's was just phenomenal.
- ChuckMcM 9y ago
  Exactly this, sort of a super calculator and simple note taker. Not a fan of the price though at $600. I would have rather they had done a PS5 clone with a 200Mhz 32bit Cortex M CPU from ST micro and have the whole thing cost less than $100.
  - cstross 9y ago
    I paid $369 for a wifi/LTE early bird special on the Indiegogo campaign site. It's still available for $400 plus shipping; I don't know where you're seeing $600, but that sounds like a scalper price from a retailer claiming early availability.
    - lykr0n 9y ago
      the price is in the article.
  - dm319 9y ago
    I think that's a great price for a custom product which will not sell in volume. Look at the Pandora and Pyra for comparison.
devereaux 9y ago
This is an ARM android device, with possible Linux support, available sometime in the future. If you want a x86 device shipping now with 2x the RAM and storage, and running an operating system that gives you the freedom to run a wider range of applications (ie Windows 10 or Linux) and if you do not care too much about the keyboard springs (ie are comfortable with a macbook like "chiclet" keyboard) check instead the GPD Pocket. https://www.slashgear.com/gpd-pocket-ubuntu-editon-review-29502163/ https://www.slashgear.com/gpd-pocket-ubuntu-editon-review-29... https://www.reddit.com/r/GPDPocket/comments/6idnia/linux_on_gpd_pocket/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GPDPocket/comments/6idnia/linux_on_... I am getting one to run statistical software and Mathematica. Costs about $450 from China, also available on Amazon prime if you need it now. I considered waiting for the Gemini, because it has LTE and a better keyboard, but the large bezel on the right of the screen made me decide against it. If they fix at least the screen I could consider getting a Gemini, even if the ARM cpu means I would need wine+Qemu to run some windows applications.
- cstross 9y ago
  The GPD Pocket is, indeed, very nice. However, it's much larger and heavier than the Gemini. The Gemini has two obvious advantages over the GPD Pocket. One is LTE; the other is its small size. Size restrictions were imposed on electronic devices permitted in the cabin on flights between certain middle eastern airports and the USA early in 2017 due to a specific terrorist threat. While those size restrictions were not extended to cover EU/USA flights, and appear to be being relaxed, if they're revived we can expect a ban on flying with anything significantly bigger than a 5.5" phablet in the cabin. The Gemini slips under the size bar; the GPD Pocket doesn't.
  - devereaux 9y ago
    These are valid objections, but premature optimization is the root of all evil. If these restrictions are extended, I do expect a GPD Pocket2 designed with these restrictions in mind, to fly just under the radar. At the moment, the GPD Win2 is being designed, with a M2 SSD slot as many people complained about storage. It is reasonable to expect a GPD Pocket2 after that. As many users are complaining about the lack of WWAN, I do expect it will come with LTE (and an outside screen to display the calling number) or at least a slot to add it in the M2 slot.
arca_vorago 9y ago
I've been trying to decide between the PS5 and the Purism phone, and my main problem with the PS5 is that Linux is only a dual boot option. If I see lineageos or another Foss android working (replicant?) On it I would greatly prefer the real keyboard of the PS5.
Crontab 9y ago
If NetBSD gets ported to it, I would seriously consider getting one.
baybal2 9y ago
Sadly, their crowdfunding campaign was spoiled by the fact that they were launching almost simultaneously with GPD Win, Onda, Chuwi, and Chiron Sigma
- tluyben2 9y ago
  You mean GPD Pocket instead of Win? It runs Linux very well. With i3, i get consistent 23 hours battery life while coding from it while on it the road.
ptx 9y ago
My main worry about this device is that it will, like most modern phones, quickly become useless due to lack of software updates. They're building it with Android 7, which was before Project Treble[1], so future updates are at the mercy of all the chip suppliers and their willingness to port their ad-hoc drivers to newer kernels. When the device stops receiving updates, it won't be safe to use on the Internet anymore and things like out-of-date SSL certificates will break things (see e.g. this video[2] for what browsing the web on Symbian and MeeGo devices looks like today). [1] https://source.android.com/devices/architecture/treble https://source.android.com/devices/architecture/treble [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGji6DPwIYY&t=820 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGji6DPwIYY&t=820
- thinkythought 9y ago
  It runs linux natively. Even if android stops getting updates, you can update that as long as you like
  - ptx 9y ago
    Not if it needs a forked kernel to support the hardware (at least not without a lot of work). Also, most GUI applications designed for a traditional GNU/Linux desktop system are not going to work well with a tiny, high-resolution touch-screen.
    - sbmassey 9y ago
      I wonder how convenient it would be to run i3 with a browser and an emacs window or terminal on the thing. That would cover a lot of possible use cases for me.
      - forapurpose 9y ago
        Is Emacs efficient with 2-finger typing? With the handheld form factor revolution, we need text editors that use that interface as efficiently as Emacs and Vim use the full keyboard interface.
cnlevy 9y ago
I had the Psion Revo+, I used to code and compile Java 1.1 programs on it. Everything had to be cointained in 16Mb RAM, the Revo+ didn't have a flash card reader I even managed to include Swing and HSQLDB
AnotherHustler 9y ago
According to their IndieGoGo page, the Gemini is still in prototype stage - it hasn't yet entered production. Is it possible they can go to manufacture and ship devices in December? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-... I've been considering ordering one - I loved the Psion, although I am not sure they will deliver on-time as promised. Has anyone been following the campaign as a backer? What's the general feeling?
- FullyFunctional 9y ago
  I backed it and we've gotten regularly updates. I believe they are in production now, or very close to it. Of course they are late, but so are practically all crowd-sourced ventures. They have demoed prototypes on multiple occasion (I haven't see it) so AFACT, it's for real.
- stuaxo 9y ago
  These are the people that did the ZX Vega, I don't hold out much hope. Which is a shame, the Psion5 was probably one of my favourite computing objects.
dm319 9y ago
I had a Psion 3a, followed by a Revo and then a 5MX. What was great about them was the ability to quickly flip them open and take notes, or run a command-line program in it's OPL language, pretty much instantaneously. In the 90s this thing was in some ways more powerful than your regular desktop computer - it had pre-emptive multitasking, SSD storage, ability to use email and connect to the web via IrDA modem phones, as well as a built-in microphone and digital audio. It's Agenda program has still not been bettered in my opinion - giving you the confidence that your appointment is in the right place in the calendar (having just had a reminder come up on my pixel for an appointment meant for this time last year). I tried to keep the dream alive with the Nokia E90 (which was too app focused and slow, sadly), the N900 (a fantastic machine, hampered by a very limited, tiny keyboard, and again, quite an app-focused desktop/phonetop). After reading online people repeatedly saying that I should just give in and use any modern phone with a bluetooth keyboard, I can now say conclusively that these people had no idea what the Psion was all about. My hope is that they can make Android or Linux work well with this form factor. The hardware looks perfect (ok I'll admit I would have traded the colour screen for a kindle-like screen for the discretion and battery life), but the thing about the Psion was the speed and ease of operation. I really hope they pull this off!
protomyth 9y ago
This machine falls into the same category as the TRS-80 Model 100 for me. An amazing battery life machine that I get my thoughts down with a minimum of fuss. The Psion 5 was a nice machine, but I would wish for a horizontal enter key as opposed to the vertical. I really wish a few more groups would take a look at this form factor because it is amazing. On a side note, was there not a machine in this type of form factor from back in the day that had APL for a programming language?
- RodgerTheGreat 9y ago
  Haven't heard of anything like the APL-based device you mention. Sounds fascinating.
- jecel 9y ago
  Even the lightest old APL computers I am familiar with, the Ampere WS-1 (Japan 1985) and the MCM 70 (Canada 1974), were giants compared to the Psion 5. http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=66 http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=66 http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=346 http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=346 I am pretty sure you weren't thinking of the IBM 5100.
  - protomyth 9y ago
    The Ampere WS-1 strikes me as familiar but I thought it was much smaller than that. Nice find.
- lproven 9y ago
  Are you thinking of OPL? OPL -- Organizer Programming Language -- was the default Psion high-level language bundled with all their EPOC machines. It's a block-structured BASIC-like language.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - protomyth 9y ago
Postosuchus 9y ago
As much as I am a sucker for such gadgets (owner of Psion 5 in the past; those memories of playing Infocom games on a Psion are difficult to forget), I don't see a point apart from a bunch of enthusiasts... It lacks the pocket factor of a smartphone, usability of a full-sized keyboard and a screen size to support practical apps beyond basic browsing etc. Couple this with a prohibitive price point (which can buy you a high-end smartphone, a very solid Chromebook, or a "generally practical" laptop)... I just cannot find a solid use case for this kind of device...
throwanem 9y ago
Damn it, I don't need another computer. I really don't need another Linux machine in my life, even if it runs Debian - which I like very much - and probably runs it very well. I don't have a use case for a machine like this, even if it does appear very much to be the pocket computer I've never quite managed to stop wanting since earliest childhood. But I'm a grownup now, with adult-sized responsibilities, and I don't want for more worthy purposes to which to put the money I would spend on this. And yet...
- ianai 9y ago
  It’s like you read my mind. It might be easier to bang on with its keyboard though. I’d definitely go with the Linux option over the android.
  - dm319 9y ago
    Have you tried termux?
zuminator 9y ago
I would consider this, although seems to me that instead of reinventing the phone part, they could've devised a Psion-like keyboard attachment to an existing premium phone.
giobox 9y ago
It's never a Psion without that sweet spring-loaded hinge design they developed to contain the double A batteries on most of their PDAs, variations of which were used on the great 3 and 5 series. It was oddly satisfying just playing with the mechanism, easily one of the most over-engineered parts I've seen on a clamshell style computer.
- bestham 9y ago
  It was awesome. I’ve worn out a Revo playing with that. But the most over engineered hinge design IMHO have to be the IBM butterfly keyboard on the Thinkpad 701.
Grumbledour 9y ago
I am looking forward to this device because I really love the form factor. I do think ti will fail however, the reason being why most of these kind of devices fail today: lack of focus on software. Just slapping some form of android on you device doesn't make it great. Even if you do everything right, you are still just as good as all other major players in the market. But of course, most companies can't even ship android updates and start with old versions to begin with, so there is that. And android apps often are not really optimized for every other form factor that a phone in portrait mode. So, then there are the ones with linux, like this one. Which is cool, because you can run whatever you want. But also, linux is mostly an afterthought for the device maker and even if it isn't, software is seldom adopted beyond installing a lightweight desktop and switching out some icons. and even if it were, linux really is not build for mobile usage today, so the UI will very likely still be really bad. I think unlike there is much more focus on adopting software to these form factors, using these kind of devices will always be sub-par. And that's a real shame, because I feel they have such as much potential as pure smartphones. A portable computer that can really do some work and be nice to use for more than watching video is a problem no one seems to really have cracked yet.
throwanem 9y ago
On further review, a concern: instead of a meta key next to 'q' which can be conveniently remapped to Control, this keyboard has Tab. In the abstract, it seems reasonable to suspect that that can be mapped in a somewhat complex fashion, such that when pressed and released alone it issues 0x09, while when pressed and held in combination with other keys it sets the Control meta bit. I'm certain Emacs can do this. Can it be done in a Linux DE more generally? It seems like that should be possible, but I'm having a hard time finding examples of similar things being done. ETA: Or I was; at-home-modifier [1] looks like it'll fit the bill. Crud. There goes what might've been my last reason not to buy one of these things... [1] https://gitlab.com/at-home-modifier/at-home-modifier-evdev/wikis/home https://gitlab.com/at-home-modifier/at-home-modifier-evdev/w...

188 points by cstross 9y ago

One thought: Back in 1997-2000, the Psion 5 was anything but niche; it was the leading paradigm for PDAs aside from the Newton/Palm tablet. (It died out due to a bad coincidence: Microsoft pre-announced the Windows CE 3 "Jupiter" platform, configured to look like a Psion killer on paper, right as Psion's CEO David Potter became seriously ill. Psion was sold off and left the field; meanwhile, WinCE 3 failed to set the world alight, and Potter survived.) But back then, selling a million PDAs meant you were huge. Integration between featurephone OS and PDA functionality still lay in the future; indeed, the leading platform, Symbian, was a direct descendant of the Psion Series 5's EPOC/32 OS. Today, we've got smartphones everywhere, but they mostly look very similar — small tablets with cameras and multitouch screen UIs. Probably not that many people will prefer a keyboard-driven PDA style of device. But there are so many more smartphone users out there that even a 1% niche market is probably bigger than Psion at their peak. Which is why Gemini is of interest: the Android market has gotten so large that it may now support odd alternative device formats.

Cyberdog 9y ago
But is "mini-tablet with a usable keyboard" really that odd of a device format these days? On Black Friday, I could have picked up something matching that description at a superstore for less than a C-note. It wouldn't have had the Psion lineage or perhaps not the build quality, but at the price point this device is going for, I don't really see the appeal unless that lineage really means that much to you.
- timthorn 9y ago
  Finding a clamshell with a proper keyboard is still hard. This folds up nicely and fits in a jacket pocket.
- stewbrew 9y ago
  What kind of device are you thinking of?
- FullyFunctional 9y ago
  (Disclaimer: I backed this) I think the build quality and keyboard is absolutely key to this device; really if the keyboard isn't awesome, this device is a failure. Thankfully the developers appears to feel the same way. I hope to not be disappointed.
jodrellblank 9y ago
Probably not that many people will prefer a keyboard-driven PDA style of device An iPhone with a bluetooth keyboard doesn't feel like it's keyboard-driven, it feels like a touchscreen GUI device with a second-class accessory only for typing into textboxes. Is Android any different in regards to this "feel of being keyboard driven" - and is the Gemini customised at all around this?
- dm319 9y ago
  I think that is something we'll have to look out for, because you're absolutely right that a phone plus bluetooth keyboard doesn't mean a good computing paradigm. They've said that they've brought in a lot of keyboard shortcuts - for example for accessing the dock applications. It looks like they're recreating the Agenda app too, which was keyboard driven (the best bit was a pop-up month calendar with a press of tab, which folded out to three months then a year with repeated presses, which could be navigated by cursor). On my android phone, a bt keyboard already has some shortcuts - like alt-tab to application switch, and I think the Windows key brings up the homescreen. You can get folders and files on the homescreen/desktop with 3rd party apps.

MrMember 9y ago

I'm really looking forward to the release of this. Im hoping to replace my phone with it, a device that dual boots Linux and Android and has a physical keyboard is like my dream phone.

jff 9y ago
Yeah, my phone died recently and I'm really considering replacing it with this. I can hold out on an old spare iPhone until then, I think.

jdietrich 9y ago

This looks super cool, but I'm not sure I'd use it. When the Series 5 was launched, there weren't a lot of good options for text input on mobile devices. The keyboard made a huge difference, because your alternatives were a full-size laptop, Graffiti on a Palm device or the awful resistive touchscreen on a WinCE device. The Psion 5 was the most useful productivity device that could fit in a coat pocket. Today, touchscreen keyboards work well enough that a Psion 5-sized keyboard isn't a vast improvement. For less than $30, you can buy a folding Bluetooth keyboard that is barely bigger than a phone when folded, but gives an almost full-sized keyboard when unfolded. The Gemini's fixed keyboard makes it impractical to use as a phone, but isn't as good as a folding bluetooth keyboard. Loath as I am to admit it, I think it's simply an obsolete form factor. If the keyboard snapped on magnetically, I might have given it serious consideration. As it is, I just don't see where such a device would fit into my workflow. https://www.amazon.com/iClever-Portable-Keyboard-Bluetooth-Wireless/dp/B00YWLJNPQ/ https://www.amazon.com/iClever-Portable-Keyboard-Bluetooth-W...

maxxxxx 9y ago
I have never seen a keyboard as small as the Psion's that felt as good. I hope they can replicate that.
- stewbrew 9y ago
  The keyboard linked to above is a full size keyboard. The keys are quite ok. When folded, it's nearly quadratic, probably taller than a Psion 5. There are smaller versions of the keyboard that might use the same keys. While I loved my Psion 5mx and the keyboard was astonishing, especially in comparison with the Psion 3, I don't think it was better than these cheap Bluetooth keyboards.
  - throwanem 9y ago
    Even the Palm folding keyboards - especially the rebranded Stowaway XT, but not excluding the original three-fold Portable - were better by far than cheap Bluetooth keyboards are today. It's not even a contest. Sure, for a few keystrokes here and there, you don't really feel the difference - but if you're spending more than a few minutes a day typing on it, you surely do.

maxxxxx 9y ago

I loved my Psion. I could actually use it to write documents or spreadsheets on a plane without problems. The battery also lasted really long. I guess the success of this may be defined by the quality of the keyboard. The Psion's was just phenomenal.

ChuckMcM 9y ago
Exactly this, sort of a super calculator and simple note taker. Not a fan of the price though at $600. I would have rather they had done a PS5 clone with a 200Mhz 32bit Cortex M CPU from ST micro and have the whole thing cost less than $100.
- cstross 9y ago
  I paid $369 for a wifi/LTE early bird special on the Indiegogo campaign site. It's still available for $400 plus shipping; I don't know where you're seeing $600, but that sounds like a scalper price from a retailer claiming early availability.
  - lykr0n 9y ago
    the price is in the article.
- dm319 9y ago
  I think that's a great price for a custom product which will not sell in volume. Look at the Pandora and Pyra for comparison.

devereaux 9y ago

This is an ARM android device, with possible Linux support, available sometime in the future. If you want a x86 device shipping now with 2x the RAM and storage, and running an operating system that gives you the freedom to run a wider range of applications (ie Windows 10 or Linux) and if you do not care too much about the keyboard springs (ie are comfortable with a macbook like "chiclet" keyboard) check instead the GPD Pocket. https://www.slashgear.com/gpd-pocket-ubuntu-editon-review-29502163/ https://www.slashgear.com/gpd-pocket-ubuntu-editon-review-29... https://www.reddit.com/r/GPDPocket/comments/6idnia/linux_on_gpd_pocket/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GPDPocket/comments/6idnia/linux_on_... I am getting one to run statistical software and Mathematica. Costs about $450 from China, also available on Amazon prime if you need it now. I considered waiting for the Gemini, because it has LTE and a better keyboard, but the large bezel on the right of the screen made me decide against it. If they fix at least the screen I could consider getting a Gemini, even if the ARM cpu means I would need wine+Qemu to run some windows applications.

cstross 9y ago
The GPD Pocket is, indeed, very nice. However, it's much larger and heavier than the Gemini. The Gemini has two obvious advantages over the GPD Pocket. One is LTE; the other is its small size. Size restrictions were imposed on electronic devices permitted in the cabin on flights between certain middle eastern airports and the USA early in 2017 due to a specific terrorist threat. While those size restrictions were not extended to cover EU/USA flights, and appear to be being relaxed, if they're revived we can expect a ban on flying with anything significantly bigger than a 5.5" phablet in the cabin. The Gemini slips under the size bar; the GPD Pocket doesn't.
- devereaux 9y ago
  These are valid objections, but premature optimization is the root of all evil. If these restrictions are extended, I do expect a GPD Pocket2 designed with these restrictions in mind, to fly just under the radar. At the moment, the GPD Win2 is being designed, with a M2 SSD slot as many people complained about storage. It is reasonable to expect a GPD Pocket2 after that. As many users are complaining about the lack of WWAN, I do expect it will come with LTE (and an outside screen to display the calling number) or at least a slot to add it in the M2 slot.

arca_vorago 9y ago

I've been trying to decide between the PS5 and the Purism phone, and my main problem with the PS5 is that Linux is only a dual boot option. If I see lineageos or another Foss android working (replicant?) On it I would greatly prefer the real keyboard of the PS5.

Crontab 9y ago

If NetBSD gets ported to it, I would seriously consider getting one.

baybal2 9y ago

Sadly, their crowdfunding campaign was spoiled by the fact that they were launching almost simultaneously with GPD Win, Onda, Chuwi, and Chiron Sigma

tluyben2 9y ago
You mean GPD Pocket instead of Win? It runs Linux very well. With i3, i get consistent 23 hours battery life while coding from it while on it the road.

ptx 9y ago

My main worry about this device is that it will, like most modern phones, quickly become useless due to lack of software updates. They're building it with Android 7, which was before Project Treble[1], so future updates are at the mercy of all the chip suppliers and their willingness to port their ad-hoc drivers to newer kernels. When the device stops receiving updates, it won't be safe to use on the Internet anymore and things like out-of-date SSL certificates will break things (see e.g. this video[2] for what browsing the web on Symbian and MeeGo devices looks like today). [1] https://source.android.com/devices/architecture/treble https://source.android.com/devices/architecture/treble [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGji6DPwIYY&t=820 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGji6DPwIYY&t=820

thinkythought 9y ago
It runs linux natively. Even if android stops getting updates, you can update that as long as you like
- ptx 9y ago
  Not if it needs a forked kernel to support the hardware (at least not without a lot of work). Also, most GUI applications designed for a traditional GNU/Linux desktop system are not going to work well with a tiny, high-resolution touch-screen.
  - sbmassey 9y ago
    I wonder how convenient it would be to run i3 with a browser and an emacs window or terminal on the thing. That would cover a lot of possible use cases for me.
    - forapurpose 9y ago
      Is Emacs efficient with 2-finger typing? With the handheld form factor revolution, we need text editors that use that interface as efficiently as Emacs and Vim use the full keyboard interface.

cnlevy 9y ago

I had the Psion Revo+, I used to code and compile Java 1.1 programs on it. Everything had to be cointained in 16Mb RAM, the Revo+ didn't have a flash card reader I even managed to include Swing and HSQLDB

AnotherHustler 9y ago

According to their IndieGoGo page, the Gemini is still in prototype stage - it hasn't yet entered production. Is it possible they can go to manufacture and ship devices in December? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-... I've been considering ordering one - I loved the Psion, although I am not sure they will deliver on-time as promised. Has anyone been following the campaign as a backer? What's the general feeling?

FullyFunctional 9y ago
I backed it and we've gotten regularly updates. I believe they are in production now, or very close to it. Of course they are late, but so are practically all crowd-sourced ventures. They have demoed prototypes on multiple occasion (I haven't see it) so AFACT, it's for real.
stuaxo 9y ago
These are the people that did the ZX Vega, I don't hold out much hope. Which is a shame, the Psion5 was probably one of my favourite computing objects.

dm319 9y ago

I had a Psion 3a, followed by a Revo and then a 5MX. What was great about them was the ability to quickly flip them open and take notes, or run a command-line program in it's OPL language, pretty much instantaneously. In the 90s this thing was in some ways more powerful than your regular desktop computer - it had pre-emptive multitasking, SSD storage, ability to use email and connect to the web via IrDA modem phones, as well as a built-in microphone and digital audio. It's Agenda program has still not been bettered in my opinion - giving you the confidence that your appointment is in the right place in the calendar (having just had a reminder come up on my pixel for an appointment meant for this time last year). I tried to keep the dream alive with the Nokia E90 (which was too app focused and slow, sadly), the N900 (a fantastic machine, hampered by a very limited, tiny keyboard, and again, quite an app-focused desktop/phonetop). After reading online people repeatedly saying that I should just give in and use any modern phone with a bluetooth keyboard, I can now say conclusively that these people had no idea what the Psion was all about. My hope is that they can make Android or Linux work well with this form factor. The hardware looks perfect (ok I'll admit I would have traded the colour screen for a kindle-like screen for the discretion and battery life), but the thing about the Psion was the speed and ease of operation. I really hope they pull this off!

protomyth 9y ago

This machine falls into the same category as the TRS-80 Model 100 for me. An amazing battery life machine that I get my thoughts down with a minimum of fuss. The Psion 5 was a nice machine, but I would wish for a horizontal enter key as opposed to the vertical. I really wish a few more groups would take a look at this form factor because it is amazing. On a side note, was there not a machine in this type of form factor from back in the day that had APL for a programming language?

RodgerTheGreat 9y ago
Haven't heard of anything like the APL-based device you mention. Sounds fascinating.
jecel 9y ago
Even the lightest old APL computers I am familiar with, the Ampere WS-1 (Japan 1985) and the MCM 70 (Canada 1974), were giants compared to the Psion 5. http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=66 http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=66 http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=346 http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=346 I am pretty sure you weren't thinking of the IBM 5100.
- protomyth 9y ago
  The Ampere WS-1 strikes me as familiar but I thought it was much smaller than that. Nice find.
lproven 9y ago
Are you thinking of OPL? OPL -- Organizer Programming Language -- was the default Psion high-level language bundled with all their EPOC machines. It's a block-structured BASIC-like language.
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- protomyth 9y ago

Postosuchus 9y ago

As much as I am a sucker for such gadgets (owner of Psion 5 in the past; those memories of playing Infocom games on a Psion are difficult to forget), I don't see a point apart from a bunch of enthusiasts... It lacks the pocket factor of a smartphone, usability of a full-sized keyboard and a screen size to support practical apps beyond basic browsing etc. Couple this with a prohibitive price point (which can buy you a high-end smartphone, a very solid Chromebook, or a "generally practical" laptop)... I just cannot find a solid use case for this kind of device...

throwanem 9y ago

Damn it, I don't need another computer. I really don't need another Linux machine in my life, even if it runs Debian - which I like very much - and probably runs it very well. I don't have a use case for a machine like this, even if it does appear very much to be the pocket computer I've never quite managed to stop wanting since earliest childhood. But I'm a grownup now, with adult-sized responsibilities, and I don't want for more worthy purposes to which to put the money I would spend on this. And yet...

ianai 9y ago
It’s like you read my mind. It might be easier to bang on with its keyboard though. I’d definitely go with the Linux option over the android.
- dm319 9y ago
  Have you tried termux?

zuminator 9y ago

I would consider this, although seems to me that instead of reinventing the phone part, they could've devised a Psion-like keyboard attachment to an existing premium phone.

giobox 9y ago

It's never a Psion without that sweet spring-loaded hinge design they developed to contain the double A batteries on most of their PDAs, variations of which were used on the great 3 and 5 series. It was oddly satisfying just playing with the mechanism, easily one of the most over-engineered parts I've seen on a clamshell style computer.

bestham 9y ago
It was awesome. I’ve worn out a Revo playing with that. But the most over engineered hinge design IMHO have to be the IBM butterfly keyboard on the Thinkpad 701.

Grumbledour 9y ago

I am looking forward to this device because I really love the form factor. I do think ti will fail however, the reason being why most of these kind of devices fail today: lack of focus on software. Just slapping some form of android on you device doesn't make it great. Even if you do everything right, you are still just as good as all other major players in the market. But of course, most companies can't even ship android updates and start with old versions to begin with, so there is that. And android apps often are not really optimized for every other form factor that a phone in portrait mode. So, then there are the ones with linux, like this one. Which is cool, because you can run whatever you want. But also, linux is mostly an afterthought for the device maker and even if it isn't, software is seldom adopted beyond installing a lightweight desktop and switching out some icons. and even if it were, linux really is not build for mobile usage today, so the UI will very likely still be really bad. I think unlike there is much more focus on adopting software to these form factors, using these kind of devices will always be sub-par. And that's a real shame, because I feel they have such as much potential as pure smartphones. A portable computer that can really do some work and be nice to use for more than watching video is a problem no one seems to really have cracked yet.

throwanem 9y ago

On further review, a concern: instead of a meta key next to 'q' which can be conveniently remapped to Control, this keyboard has Tab. In the abstract, it seems reasonable to suspect that that can be mapped in a somewhat complex fashion, such that when pressed and released alone it issues 0x09, while when pressed and held in combination with other keys it sets the Control meta bit. I'm certain Emacs can do this. Can it be done in a Linux DE more generally? It seems like that should be possible, but I'm having a hard time finding examples of similar things being done. ETA: Or I was; at-home-modifier [1] looks like it'll fit the bill. Crud. There goes what might've been my last reason not to buy one of these things... [1] https://gitlab.com/at-home-modifier/at-home-modifier-evdev/wikis/home https://gitlab.com/at-home-modifier/at-home-modifier-evdev/w...