5 ms·

Also, there's no reason creators couldn't use "dumb ads" where they read ad copy during their videos, and sell the spots themselves. Seems to be the main revenu

by nathcd 9y ago

Also, there's no reason creators couldn't use "dumb ads" where they read ad copy during their videos, and sell the spots themselves. Seems to be the main revenue source in the podcast world. It feels weird to be an advocate for something like dumb advertising (maybe "content-targeted advertising" is a better name?), but dumb ads and Patreon really are a breath of fresh air relative to the status quo of web content.

kakarot 9y ago
Yes, it's one thing for serial content like a podcast or talk show, it's another for more artistic endeavors where it would lesson the artistic credibility to have an ad ingrained into the video. It's also not a suitable format for those who create many small 1-5m videos. Additionally, it prevents you from retroactively changing what ad gets sent with the video, which can lead to conflicts arising over severed business ties, and limit your overall ability to make residual profit from older videos.
- nathcd 9y ago
  > Yes, it's one thing for serial content like a podcast or talk show, it's another for more artistic endeavors where it would lesson the artistic credibility to have an ad ingrained into the video. > It's also not a suitable format for those who create many small 1-5m videos. I don't think having platform-handled dynamic ads (ie YouTube) differs from these dynamics in any meaningful way. The difference that matters is that with dumb ads the creator has complete control. > Additionally, it prevents you from retroactively changing what ad gets sent with the video, which can lead to conflicts arising over severed business ties, and limit your overall ability to make residual profit from older videos. This is a feature (of content-targeted advertising), not a bug. If a business model relies on tracking and targeting unknowing users who aren't aware that they can resist being tracked and targeted, maybe it was a crappy business model in the first place.
  - kakarot 9y ago
    > This is a feature (of content-targeted advertising), not a bug. If a business model relies on tracking and targeting unknowing users who aren't aware that they can resist being tracked and targeted, maybe it was a crappy business model in the first place. This is a false dichotomy. There exists a large, partly unexplored space between hard embedded pre-recorded ads and targeted advertising that makes use of tracking.
    - nathcd 9y ago
      Hmmm, that's a possibility I haven't considered. I suppose because I'm having trouble imagining what that in-between space looks like. If an ad is targeted at a user, doesn't that necessarily mean they were tracked to some degree (i.e. some data is known about them, and an ad is being shown to them based on whatever that known data is)? Conversely, if nothing is known about the user (they haven't been tracked at all), how can an ad be targeted at them (besides knowing they are viewing a webpage on a certain topic, but then we're back at being content-targeted)? The only possibility I can think of that's somewhat in-between, is a site tracking a user across their own site (first-party only), and targeting ads based on that collected data, rather than contracting that out to Google who can follow you across many sites. Is this what you have in mind? Other than this, I'm having trouble thinking of possibilities that exist between content-targeted and user-targeted via tracking. It's interesting to consider though.
      - wolfgang42 9y ago
        The parent isn't arguing against content-targeted advertising, just pointing out that it doesn't have to be baked immutably into the content the way YouTube/Podcast sponsorship messages are. One example of this is the https://www.projectwonderful.com/ https://www.projectwonderful.com/ model of auctioning ad slots the same way you would sell e.g. a billboard. The only targeting in this model is based on demographics of the content's audience at large (e.g. advertising Bobcat in a Box on Explain XKCD).
      - kakarot 9y ago
        When Linus Media Group sells advertising segments (an example of baked-in advertising), they don't provide user data. The advertisers purchase segments with the knowledge of the kind of crowd Linus Media Group attracts. Linus isn't going to open a video talking about women's pantyhose. He will open a video talking about an accessory, peripheral, or computer part that a viewer is actually more likely to buy. This is very effective advertising. Since most of LMG's content is medium and long format and doesn't rely on complete artistic integrity in each of its videos as part of the value, baked-in advertising is acceptable and understandable. While baked-in advertising still doesn't work for other kinds of creators, it doesn't mean some form of targeted advertising can not be done in an ethical fashion.

by nathcd 9y ago

kakarot 9y ago

Yes, it's one thing for serial content like a podcast or talk show, it's another for more artistic endeavors where it would lesson the artistic credibility to have an ad ingrained into the video. It's also not a suitable format for those who create many small 1-5m videos. Additionally, it prevents you from retroactively changing what ad gets sent with the video, which can lead to conflicts arising over severed business ties, and limit your overall ability to make residual profit from older videos.

nathcd 9y ago
> Yes, it's one thing for serial content like a podcast or talk show, it's another for more artistic endeavors where it would lesson the artistic credibility to have an ad ingrained into the video. > It's also not a suitable format for those who create many small 1-5m videos. I don't think having platform-handled dynamic ads (ie YouTube) differs from these dynamics in any meaningful way. The difference that matters is that with dumb ads the creator has complete control. > Additionally, it prevents you from retroactively changing what ad gets sent with the video, which can lead to conflicts arising over severed business ties, and limit your overall ability to make residual profit from older videos. This is a feature (of content-targeted advertising), not a bug. If a business model relies on tracking and targeting unknowing users who aren't aware that they can resist being tracked and targeted, maybe it was a crappy business model in the first place.
- kakarot 9y ago
  > This is a feature (of content-targeted advertising), not a bug. If a business model relies on tracking and targeting unknowing users who aren't aware that they can resist being tracked and targeted, maybe it was a crappy business model in the first place. This is a false dichotomy. There exists a large, partly unexplored space between hard embedded pre-recorded ads and targeted advertising that makes use of tracking.
  - nathcd 9y ago
    Hmmm, that's a possibility I haven't considered. I suppose because I'm having trouble imagining what that in-between space looks like. If an ad is targeted at a user, doesn't that necessarily mean they were tracked to some degree (i.e. some data is known about them, and an ad is being shown to them based on whatever that known data is)? Conversely, if nothing is known about the user (they haven't been tracked at all), how can an ad be targeted at them (besides knowing they are viewing a webpage on a certain topic, but then we're back at being content-targeted)? The only possibility I can think of that's somewhat in-between, is a site tracking a user across their own site (first-party only), and targeting ads based on that collected data, rather than contracting that out to Google who can follow you across many sites. Is this what you have in mind? Other than this, I'm having trouble thinking of possibilities that exist between content-targeted and user-targeted via tracking. It's interesting to consider though.
    - wolfgang42 9y ago
      The parent isn't arguing against content-targeted advertising, just pointing out that it doesn't have to be baked immutably into the content the way YouTube/Podcast sponsorship messages are. One example of this is the https://www.projectwonderful.com/ https://www.projectwonderful.com/ model of auctioning ad slots the same way you would sell e.g. a billboard. The only targeting in this model is based on demographics of the content's audience at large (e.g. advertising Bobcat in a Box on Explain XKCD).
    - kakarot 9y ago
      When Linus Media Group sells advertising segments (an example of baked-in advertising), they don't provide user data. The advertisers purchase segments with the knowledge of the kind of crowd Linus Media Group attracts. Linus isn't going to open a video talking about women's pantyhose. He will open a video talking about an accessory, peripheral, or computer part that a viewer is actually more likely to buy. This is very effective advertising. Since most of LMG's content is medium and long format and doesn't rely on complete artistic integrity in each of its videos as part of the value, baked-in advertising is acceptable and understandable. While baked-in advertising still doesn't work for other kinds of creators, it doesn't mean some form of targeted advertising can not be done in an ethical fashion.