6 ms·

I love the line about "hurting Uber's reputation", as if they are the sterling example of honest and ethical company.

by Hasz 9y ago

Kalium 9y ago
To most users in most places, there's nothing particularly notable about Uber. They have an unsavory reputation if you move in certain rarefied technical or political circles, but not among the general public. My parents, who are by no means ignorant or uneducated, would be completely unable to comment on why Uber might have a bad reputation.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
  Exactly. 99% percent (or more) of Uber users are completely fine with Uber, possibly see Uber as a positive addition to their lives, and if they have any qualms with the company, they are related to specific incidences of bad service or pricing vis-a-vis local competitors rather than any political matters.
  - Kalium 9y ago
    I recently encountered a senior citizen with mobility issues. As far as she's concerned, Uber is the best thing that has happened to her in the past two decades. She no longer has to wait a half hour or more for a taxi that may not show! Total game-changer. She has no idea about some of the aspects of Uber that some may find objectionable.
    - kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
      I think a lot of the critics here fail to appreciate (or just begrudgingly admit) just how much a game-changer Uber has been in people's lives. That's real value.
      - mattmanser 9y ago
        In America? Much of the rest of the world already has perfectly fine minicabs that turn up in 5 minutes. Good thing about Uber for the rest of the world is US VCs subsidising our rides.
        gcb0 9y ago
        american idiocracy from people that probably never traveled. 1. allow cabs to run mostly unregulated (besides the regulated monopoly part) 2. cab service is crap because drivers rent the taxi license from someone who broker rented taxi licenses. its mind boggling how far the drivers are from the meddalions. 3. startup breaks tons of laws, including the one making cabs a bad monopoly and abuse user data left and rigth. 4. americans thing it is the best thing ever. wake up and realize that the taxi monopoly was the cause. uber is just trying to replace one monopoly with another. because being at the top of that monopoly is very lucrative. the only good thing uber did was prove without doubt that taxi monopoly laws were bad and didnt serve the drivers or the community. but absolutely nobody is willing to even consider talking about it. its all PR about "uber saved mankind".
        kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
        "American idiocracy" So this is why Uber and its clones are so popular in all kinds of countries from India to China to South East Asia? To be honest it is you who seems like the less traveled one.
        gcb0 9y ago
        there are tons of countries with the same monopoly protection laws as the U.S.
      - hmschreck 9y ago
        Neither I nor my fiance drive, so Uber and Lyft are vital parts of our lives now. Even as a physically healthy person, it makes the life I want to live possible.
- mannykannot 9y ago
  You have a valid point, though many Uber drivers may also be in the less-than-thrilled category. On the other hand, this suggests the fear of reputation damage is being overstated - most people pay little heed to court cases unless bodies are involved one way or another.
- allenz 9y ago
  It's not just tech circles. Many Lyft drivers tell me that they refuse to drive for Uber because Uber is not friendly. That's a significant number of people, more so if you include people they talk to. Word gets out.
  - misun78 9y ago
    Drivers drive for the product that provides the most income. Outside of the realms of SF (and even within), there are only two types of drivers: 1. Ones who drive for both - this cohort used to prefer Lyft due to tips but the scales have tipped (no pun) due to Uber introducing a whole host of features which Lyft is catching up to. This is easily verifiable by frequenting reddit.com/r/uberdrivers or reddit.com/r/lyft 2. Ones who only drive for Uber because the demand is overwhelming enough to not justify managing two separate accounts. Anything else you hear is pure anecdote. My source - I am an Uber employee :)
    - joosters 9y ago
      If you work for Uber, it's not surprising that you only hear from drivers that do some work for Uber!
    - allenz 9y ago
      You're saying that no drivers avoid Uber? How do you know that?
  - greggarious 9y ago
    This is true. For example, it is my understanding Lyft drivers face no penalty for ending a ride if they feel unsafe, whereas Uber will penalize the driver if they don't complete the ride - incentivizing drivers to tolerate abusive or sexually harassing behavior. [1] Lyft driver cancel policy: https://help.lyft.com/hc/en-us/articles/213584358#drivercancellations https://help.lyft.com/hc/en-us/articles/213584358#drivercanc...
    - londons_explore 9y ago
      I can't believe the number of rides a typical driver gets harassed on is significant enough to make a significant dent in their earnings...?
- Sangermaine 9y ago
  Your parents don't follow any news source? The stories about Uber aren't found in obscure niche sites only wonks would read. Uber's problems are routinely featured in front page New York Times stories, for example. The very article this thread discusses is from that paper, not exactly a minor publication.
  - jasode 9y ago
    Your comment prompted me to try a personal unscientific test. I just pinged a woman who reads CNN news on her iPad every morning with coffee and asked her what she knew about Uber. I specifically asked if she "heard any bad things about Uber?" Her only reply was that she heard an Uber driver raped a passenger. That's it. Even with her daily CNN news habit, she does not know about: - Uber workplace sexual harrassment - Uber using grayball against government officials - Uber legal fights about contractor vs employee classifications - Uber lawsuit about corporate espionage Yes, it's just a sample size of 1 but I think it's very easy to overestimate what typical people know about Uber. The HN bubble repeatedly upvotes negative Uber stories that would never cross the radar of most everyone else.
    - michaelmrose 9y ago
      Why didn't you ping a random selection of people rather than just one this is not a useful data point.
    - michaelmrose 9y ago
      To be clearer the last sentence is fine. The entire section that precedes it is extremely intellectually dishonest. You started with the thesis that regular people aren't aware of negative stories about uber, pinged one user, got the desired result and stopped and presented your argument. You presented her as an avid reader of CNN a functionally irrelevant detail as if to say if even SHE doesn't know about bad press about uber obviously the plebs don't. Unfortunately there isn't any representative sample size of one and the fact that she reads CNN on her ipad tells you little about what she reads on CNN. You could even be correct but the way you prove your point is so badly argued that you do a disservice to your own point. You should avoid making your arguments about appeals to emotional reasoning.
- heedlessly2 9y ago
  there's also a lot people who just don't care. They have both lyft and uber, whichever is faster or cheaper, they take. Sometimes you just need to get from point A to point B
- travmatt 9y ago
  But a company that cared about it’s reputation would probably have refrained from most of the wildly inappropriate behavior it’s regularly alleged to have engaged in, making current claims about their dedication to their reputation ring hollow.
DonHopkins 9y ago
I did a spit-take when I read that line.

I love the line about "hurting Uber's reputation", as if they are the sterling example of honest and ethical company.

by Hasz 9y ago

I love the line about "hurting Uber's reputation", as if they are the sterling example of honest and ethical company.

To most users in most places, there's nothing particularly notable about Uber. They have an unsavory reputation if you move in certain rarefied technical or political circles, but not among the general public. My parents, who are by no means ignorant or uneducated, would be completely unable to comment on why Uber might have a bad reputation.

kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
Exactly. 99% percent (or more) of Uber users are completely fine with Uber, possibly see Uber as a positive addition to their lives, and if they have any qualms with the company, they are related to specific incidences of bad service or pricing vis-a-vis local competitors rather than any political matters.
- Kalium 9y ago
  I recently encountered a senior citizen with mobility issues. As far as she's concerned, Uber is the best thing that has happened to her in the past two decades. She no longer has to wait a half hour or more for a taxi that may not show! Total game-changer. She has no idea about some of the aspects of Uber that some may find objectionable.
  - kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
    I think a lot of the critics here fail to appreciate (or just begrudgingly admit) just how much a game-changer Uber has been in people's lives. That's real value.
    - mattmanser 9y ago
      In America? Much of the rest of the world already has perfectly fine minicabs that turn up in 5 minutes. Good thing about Uber for the rest of the world is US VCs subsidising our rides.
      - gcb0 9y ago
        american idiocracy from people that probably never traveled. 1. allow cabs to run mostly unregulated (besides the regulated monopoly part) 2. cab service is crap because drivers rent the taxi license from someone who broker rented taxi licenses. its mind boggling how far the drivers are from the meddalions. 3. startup breaks tons of laws, including the one making cabs a bad monopoly and abuse user data left and rigth. 4. americans thing it is the best thing ever. wake up and realize that the taxi monopoly was the cause. uber is just trying to replace one monopoly with another. because being at the top of that monopoly is very lucrative. the only good thing uber did was prove without doubt that taxi monopoly laws were bad and didnt serve the drivers or the community. but absolutely nobody is willing to even consider talking about it. its all PR about "uber saved mankind".
        kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
        "American idiocracy" So this is why Uber and its clones are so popular in all kinds of countries from India to China to South East Asia? To be honest it is you who seems like the less traveled one.
        gcb0 9y ago
        there are tons of countries with the same monopoly protection laws as the U.S.
    - hmschreck 9y ago
      Neither I nor my fiance drive, so Uber and Lyft are vital parts of our lives now. Even as a physically healthy person, it makes the life I want to live possible.
mannykannot 9y ago
You have a valid point, though many Uber drivers may also be in the less-than-thrilled category. On the other hand, this suggests the fear of reputation damage is being overstated - most people pay little heed to court cases unless bodies are involved one way or another.
allenz 9y ago
It's not just tech circles. Many Lyft drivers tell me that they refuse to drive for Uber because Uber is not friendly. That's a significant number of people, more so if you include people they talk to. Word gets out.
- misun78 9y ago
  Drivers drive for the product that provides the most income. Outside of the realms of SF (and even within), there are only two types of drivers: 1. Ones who drive for both - this cohort used to prefer Lyft due to tips but the scales have tipped (no pun) due to Uber introducing a whole host of features which Lyft is catching up to. This is easily verifiable by frequenting reddit.com/r/uberdrivers or reddit.com/r/lyft 2. Ones who only drive for Uber because the demand is overwhelming enough to not justify managing two separate accounts. Anything else you hear is pure anecdote. My source - I am an Uber employee :)
  - joosters 9y ago
    If you work for Uber, it's not surprising that you only hear from drivers that do some work for Uber!
  - allenz 9y ago
    You're saying that no drivers avoid Uber? How do you know that?
- greggarious 9y ago
  This is true. For example, it is my understanding Lyft drivers face no penalty for ending a ride if they feel unsafe, whereas Uber will penalize the driver if they don't complete the ride - incentivizing drivers to tolerate abusive or sexually harassing behavior. [1] Lyft driver cancel policy: https://help.lyft.com/hc/en-us/articles/213584358#drivercancellations https://help.lyft.com/hc/en-us/articles/213584358#drivercanc...
  - londons_explore 9y ago
    I can't believe the number of rides a typical driver gets harassed on is significant enough to make a significant dent in their earnings...?
Sangermaine 9y ago
Your parents don't follow any news source? The stories about Uber aren't found in obscure niche sites only wonks would read. Uber's problems are routinely featured in front page New York Times stories, for example. The very article this thread discusses is from that paper, not exactly a minor publication.
- jasode 9y ago
  Your comment prompted me to try a personal unscientific test. I just pinged a woman who reads CNN news on her iPad every morning with coffee and asked her what she knew about Uber. I specifically asked if she "heard any bad things about Uber?" Her only reply was that she heard an Uber driver raped a passenger. That's it. Even with her daily CNN news habit, she does not know about: - Uber workplace sexual harrassment - Uber using grayball against government officials - Uber legal fights about contractor vs employee classifications - Uber lawsuit about corporate espionage Yes, it's just a sample size of 1 but I think it's very easy to overestimate what typical people know about Uber. The HN bubble repeatedly upvotes negative Uber stories that would never cross the radar of most everyone else.
  - michaelmrose 9y ago
    Why didn't you ping a random selection of people rather than just one this is not a useful data point.
  - michaelmrose 9y ago
    To be clearer the last sentence is fine. The entire section that precedes it is extremely intellectually dishonest. You started with the thesis that regular people aren't aware of negative stories about uber, pinged one user, got the desired result and stopped and presented your argument. You presented her as an avid reader of CNN a functionally irrelevant detail as if to say if even SHE doesn't know about bad press about uber obviously the plebs don't. Unfortunately there isn't any representative sample size of one and the fact that she reads CNN on her ipad tells you little about what she reads on CNN. You could even be correct but the way you prove your point is so badly argued that you do a disservice to your own point. You should avoid making your arguments about appeals to emotional reasoning.
heedlessly2 9y ago
there's also a lot people who just don't care. They have both lyft and uber, whichever is faster or cheaper, they take. Sometimes you just need to get from point A to point B
travmatt 9y ago
But a company that cared about it’s reputation would probably have refrained from most of the wildly inappropriate behavior it’s regularly alleged to have engaged in, making current claims about their dedication to their reputation ring hollow.

DonHopkins 9y ago

I did a spit-take when I read that line.