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I would consider it to devalue the home. I don't ever want that kind of thing in my house but, even if I did, I'm not going to trust anyone to properly transfer

I would consider it to devalue the home. I don't ever want that kind of thing in my house but, even if I did, I'm not going to trust anyone to properly transfer whatever cloud access they have to things in my home, so it will all have to be removed anyway.

heartbreak 9y ago
Who said anything about the cloud? I know what you mean though; if I had to use a cloud service, I definitely wouldn't want it in my house. In my experience it's easier to set this stuff up without the crummy proprietary cloud services anyway.
- leereeves 9y ago
  But even if you do set it up without the cloud services, can you prove that to a buyer who isn't experienced with the technology?
ocdtrekkie 9y ago
If your house uses good standard local communication protocols, like Z-Wave, ZigBee, or Insteon, you can take your cloud devices, and a new owner can just buy a new hub device with their own cloud account and connect the devices to it. Doesn't matter what the other person has in their account at that juncture. That being said, if I was ever to leave home automation hardware behind, it'd be a "if you want to pay x on top of the already agreed upon price for the property, I'll leave it", where x is the cost for me to just buy new modules for my new place.
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  > you can take your cloud devices, and a new owner can just buy a new hub device with their own cloud account and connect the devices to it. That sounds like a pain in the ass. > if I was ever to leave home automation hardware behind, it'd be a "if you want to pay x on top of the already agreed upon price for the property, I'll leave it I don't want to buy new crap to deal with the crap you left behind. I'd argue that you ought to pay me for dealing with some arbitrary hardware that I've now inherited. This is the equivalent of leaving some finicky boiler system whose spare parts can only be ordered from a single factory in Germany.
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    I don't want to buy new crap to deal with the crap you left behind. I'd argue that you ought to pay me for dealing with some arbitrary hardware that I've now inherited. This is the equivalent of leaving some finicky boiler system whose spare parts can only be ordered from a single factory in Germany. In context they are also more or less offering to remove it for free. I expect that includes putting conventional fixtures in (depending on the terms of the sale, but why bother trying to insist that the house doesn't come with light switches).
    - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
      Indeed, an option like that would be purely: If you're going to want these, I can save myself the effort of swapping them if you want to buy them off me. Otherwise, I'll either reinstall the original equipment or buy new equipment. (New dumb light switches for my old condo cost me $1.95 a pop.) At my old condo, one thing I left as a bit of a 'gift', was a extremely solid dual-arm TV wall mount. It was cheap for me to repurchase for my new place, and then they don't have the risk of screwing into the studs near but not in the holes I had mounted mine or such concerns that might weaken their own mount. I had all the hardware and instructions, which I left with it. This might've been a less handy choice had either the condo been large enough for other places for the TV to make sense or be appealing, or if the TV mount I had installed wasn't sturdy enough to support all possible TVs one might be bringing in.
- fredophile 9y ago
  Where I live the general rule is anything that was attached is considered part of the home you're buying/selling. If you don't want the light switches and thermostat being sold they should be removed and replaced before you show the home.
  - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
    What is or is not included in the home sale should be explicitly listed in the property listing. Many houses are shown with contents that will be removed before sale, so when you buy a house, if there's something you're expecting to get as part of it, you should explicitly document it in your offer terms.
    - fredophile 9y ago
      There are always going to be local norms and laws though. Where I live and recently bought a home the default is that anything bolted/screwed down is part of the home you're buying. Furniture, art, etc is not included. Most sellers will include the major kitchen appliances, washers and dryers are on a case by case basis. When I bought, the sellers wanted to keep some shelving and curtain rods and this (along with the major appliances) was explicitly covered in the contract.
- slantyyz 9y ago
  >> That being said, if I was ever to leave home automation hardware behind, it'd be a "if you want to pay x on top of the already agreed upon price for the property, I'll leave it", where x is the cost for me to just buy new modules for my new place. If you live in any major urban center that request would likely get laughed at since the value of your depreciated hardware likely wouldn't even count as a rounding error on the purchase price. Some buyers might even want a discount on your selling price because of the extra work they'd have to do to get rid of the gear.
ashark 9y ago
I think a similar effect has been why power generation and efficiency systems (solar, "geothermal" heating/cooling) have been slow to catch on—for every buyer who sees them as a nice thing there's another who's turned off by them, and another who doesn't care enough to pay much extra. And even the ones who think they're good probably won't pay the pro-rated cost of putting it in, so you're still losing some money. Kinda like having a pool. Also why builders don't usually put that stuff in when it'd be easiest and cheapest, I think. Even at those lower costs they can't make the money back when they sell. So they're a good idea if you think it's very likely you'll stay in a house 15+ years, but not so much otherwise.
- bluGill 9y ago
  Where I live geothermo heating/cooling is listed in the ads for some houses. I recall when we were looking the realtor made sure we knew which houses had geothermo. We ended up with a regular air source heat pump, but geothermo is recognized as a selling point at least even if it doens't add value.
- paulie_a 9y ago
  In my market pools are a negative to the sale price, they are immediately removed upon closing.
adrianmonk 9y ago
This sort of thing happens with used cars. If it's all stock, the value is general higher than if the car has been modified with various aftermarket parts. I believe the main reason is that a stock vehicle is less of an unknown when it comes to repairs and maintenance.
- saiya-jin 9y ago
  stuff like engine chipping puts loads of extra stress on whole engine/drivetrain/clutch setup that original car was not designed for. There are really no free lunches out there. Even aesthetical changes are a big warning - this one has been somehow tampered with, and you have no clue what was changed and for what reason. For example I bought some older BMW few years back. When i went for some complete checkup after cca 2 years, mechanic told me that car has been lowered a bit and brakes are some lightweight version. It was my first car and I didn't notice, and effin' dealer didn't mention it. All good but - lowered car has issue in places like underground parkings, where road is steep and sometimes I hit the bottom of the car when road bends too much. So because some idiot previous owner wanting to squeeze a bit extra driveability out of a diesel car (although amazing diesel it is), I now have these crappy consequences and have to drive carefully like with some ferrari. I've hit the bottom in various situations maybe 20x so far, maybe one day it will break something crucial and I will be left in some nasty situation with broken car. Yeah, you want untampered (more) predictable stock cars.

heartbreak 9y ago

Who said anything about the cloud? I know what you mean though; if I had to use a cloud service, I definitely wouldn't want it in my house. In my experience it's easier to set this stuff up without the crummy proprietary cloud services anyway.

leereeves 9y ago
But even if you do set it up without the cloud services, can you prove that to a buyer who isn't experienced with the technology?

ocdtrekkie 9y ago

If your house uses good standard local communication protocols, like Z-Wave, ZigBee, or Insteon, you can take your cloud devices, and a new owner can just buy a new hub device with their own cloud account and connect the devices to it. Doesn't matter what the other person has in their account at that juncture. That being said, if I was ever to leave home automation hardware behind, it'd be a "if you want to pay x on top of the already agreed upon price for the property, I'll leave it", where x is the cost for me to just buy new modules for my new place.

pavel_lishin 9y ago
> you can take your cloud devices, and a new owner can just buy a new hub device with their own cloud account and connect the devices to it. That sounds like a pain in the ass. > if I was ever to leave home automation hardware behind, it'd be a "if you want to pay x on top of the already agreed upon price for the property, I'll leave it I don't want to buy new crap to deal with the crap you left behind. I'd argue that you ought to pay me for dealing with some arbitrary hardware that I've now inherited. This is the equivalent of leaving some finicky boiler system whose spare parts can only be ordered from a single factory in Germany.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  I don't want to buy new crap to deal with the crap you left behind. I'd argue that you ought to pay me for dealing with some arbitrary hardware that I've now inherited. This is the equivalent of leaving some finicky boiler system whose spare parts can only be ordered from a single factory in Germany. In context they are also more or less offering to remove it for free. I expect that includes putting conventional fixtures in (depending on the terms of the sale, but why bother trying to insist that the house doesn't come with light switches).
  - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
    Indeed, an option like that would be purely: If you're going to want these, I can save myself the effort of swapping them if you want to buy them off me. Otherwise, I'll either reinstall the original equipment or buy new equipment. (New dumb light switches for my old condo cost me $1.95 a pop.) At my old condo, one thing I left as a bit of a 'gift', was a extremely solid dual-arm TV wall mount. It was cheap for me to repurchase for my new place, and then they don't have the risk of screwing into the studs near but not in the holes I had mounted mine or such concerns that might weaken their own mount. I had all the hardware and instructions, which I left with it. This might've been a less handy choice had either the condo been large enough for other places for the TV to make sense or be appealing, or if the TV mount I had installed wasn't sturdy enough to support all possible TVs one might be bringing in.
fredophile 9y ago
Where I live the general rule is anything that was attached is considered part of the home you're buying/selling. If you don't want the light switches and thermostat being sold they should be removed and replaced before you show the home.
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  What is or is not included in the home sale should be explicitly listed in the property listing. Many houses are shown with contents that will be removed before sale, so when you buy a house, if there's something you're expecting to get as part of it, you should explicitly document it in your offer terms.
  - fredophile 9y ago
    There are always going to be local norms and laws though. Where I live and recently bought a home the default is that anything bolted/screwed down is part of the home you're buying. Furniture, art, etc is not included. Most sellers will include the major kitchen appliances, washers and dryers are on a case by case basis. When I bought, the sellers wanted to keep some shelving and curtain rods and this (along with the major appliances) was explicitly covered in the contract.
slantyyz 9y ago
>> That being said, if I was ever to leave home automation hardware behind, it'd be a "if you want to pay x on top of the already agreed upon price for the property, I'll leave it", where x is the cost for me to just buy new modules for my new place. If you live in any major urban center that request would likely get laughed at since the value of your depreciated hardware likely wouldn't even count as a rounding error on the purchase price. Some buyers might even want a discount on your selling price because of the extra work they'd have to do to get rid of the gear.

ashark 9y ago

I think a similar effect has been why power generation and efficiency systems (solar, "geothermal" heating/cooling) have been slow to catch on—for every buyer who sees them as a nice thing there's another who's turned off by them, and another who doesn't care enough to pay much extra. And even the ones who think they're good probably won't pay the pro-rated cost of putting it in, so you're still losing some money. Kinda like having a pool. Also why builders don't usually put that stuff in when it'd be easiest and cheapest, I think. Even at those lower costs they can't make the money back when they sell. So they're a good idea if you think it's very likely you'll stay in a house 15+ years, but not so much otherwise.

bluGill 9y ago
Where I live geothermo heating/cooling is listed in the ads for some houses. I recall when we were looking the realtor made sure we knew which houses had geothermo. We ended up with a regular air source heat pump, but geothermo is recognized as a selling point at least even if it doens't add value.
paulie_a 9y ago
In my market pools are a negative to the sale price, they are immediately removed upon closing.

adrianmonk 9y ago

This sort of thing happens with used cars. If it's all stock, the value is general higher than if the car has been modified with various aftermarket parts. I believe the main reason is that a stock vehicle is less of an unknown when it comes to repairs and maintenance.

saiya-jin 9y ago
stuff like engine chipping puts loads of extra stress on whole engine/drivetrain/clutch setup that original car was not designed for. There are really no free lunches out there. Even aesthetical changes are a big warning - this one has been somehow tampered with, and you have no clue what was changed and for what reason. For example I bought some older BMW few years back. When i went for some complete checkup after cca 2 years, mechanic told me that car has been lowered a bit and brakes are some lightweight version. It was my first car and I didn't notice, and effin' dealer didn't mention it. All good but - lowered car has issue in places like underground parkings, where road is steep and sometimes I hit the bottom of the car when road bends too much. So because some idiot previous owner wanting to squeeze a bit extra driveability out of a diesel car (although amazing diesel it is), I now have these crappy consequences and have to drive carefully like with some ferrari. I've hit the bottom in various situations maybe 20x so far, maybe one day it will break something crucial and I will be left in some nasty situation with broken car. Yeah, you want untampered (more) predictable stock cars.