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The not adding value to the house bit is important. Nobody really knows about or cares enough about home automation to justify an added expense on the cost of t

The not adding value to the house bit is important. Nobody really knows about or cares enough about home automation to justify an added expense on the cost of the home. Maybe this will change when the "iPhone of home automation" finally comes out. Also Z-wave stuff is EXPENSIVE! so if it's not going to up the value of the house then I'm basically giving that stuff away for free.

Silhouette 9y ago
The not adding value to the house bit is important. Nobody really knows about or cares enough about home automation to justify an added expense on the cost of the home. I'd actually go further. I do care about home automation, because it is almost certainly a negative and possibly a deal-breaker for me to put any offer in to buy a place. If it has anything installed that has any form of off-site access or any dependency on a remote service then I am going to require the existing owner to remove it and make good at their own expense as a condition of any offer (other than possibly a suitably approved alarm system with clearly detailed monitoring arrangements and contacts). Likewise if there is anything installed that relies on any sort of sensors or "smart" control systems, I am going to require credible written guarantees about the security, privacy, safety and longevity of that system, or far more likely it is again going to have to be removed and made good at the current owner's expense as a condition.
- commandar 9y ago
  The interesting legacy corollary here is that it's completely bog standard for home security systems to be left in place when a house is sold. I say this because the systems that ADT, etc sell these days are largely made up of white labeled COTS Z-Wave sensors with the security panel just being a hub and interface to the Z-Wave network. The house I moved into this past year is covered by sensors for an old ADT system that are useless to me, and I've been slowly removing them and replacing them with equivalent Z-Wave e.g., door and motion sensors as I get to it. Whenever I move, I'll take the hub with me. Any sensors that get left behind would be almost entirely equivalent to an old security system being left in the house except for the fact that they'd be pairable with any system the new owner decides to put in place since they're actually standards based.
  - mcguire 9y ago
    Do you have any links to information about standards based products? I haven't run across any casually, which is why i haven't looked.
    - commandar 9y ago
      Most whitelabel home automation stuff runs on the Z-Wave protocol. Zigbee is also fairly popular for some applications; it's what e.g., Philips Hue runs on. Devices using either of these will generally pair with any hub with the appropriate radios like Smart Things. There's additionally a class of home automation stuff that runs over WiFi; they more generally have proprietary communication protocols and I personally avoid them for the most part.
  - enobrev 9y ago
    Just as well, if you plan to sign up with ADT, they insist upon new equipment. I just went through this. We bought our house in February. ADT was sending crap almost daily so I called to see what they were offering. They absolutely would not use the 3-year old equipment in the house. Installation would come with new equipment. I didn't care either way, but thought that was notable. No matter; I wasn't interested, and I was happy to get rid of all the their signs and stickers.
    - commandar 9y ago
      Yeah, it's the reason I just went straight to tearing them all out. There is literally nothing ADT's whitelabeled sensors do that standard Z-Wave devices can't at a third the price -- or less! -- without tying me to any specific security company. If I decide to move to any other HA system, I just replace the hub and pair my existing devices back up. In fact, ADT's latest move seems to be piggybacking on Smart Things for HA, but... since I already have Smart Things what do I really need ADT for?
- khedoros1 9y ago
  Mostly, I don't care about home automation. I don't care so much about the previous owner removing the components, because I'm sure that I can do it when I move in. Anything that can be set up for remote access is at least being disconnected, if not removed entirely.
- ensignavenger 9y ago
  "if there is anything installed that relies on any sort of sensors" So, no smoke or CO2 alarms in your house?
  - Silhouette 9y ago
    Especially things like those. If you can give me evidence they are properly set up, working, and compliant with all applicable advice and regulations, that's great, I'll be happy to have them. Otherwise, get rid of them, and I'll get my own properly fitted by a suitably qualified professional, thanks. Those things save lives, and I'm not going to cut corners to save a few bucks, only to find that your hack job installer didn't connect them to repeat alarms properly throughout the building, or you used some trendy junk that doesn't actually work reliably if the power goes out, Internet is down, or some other dumb thing that should have nothing at all to do with safety systems ever.
    - ensignavenger 9y ago
      All smoke alarms use sensors, whether or not they are connected to the Internet.
      - Silhouette 9y ago
        No kidding...
hkmurakami 9y ago
There are people like me who actively avoid home automation too. Seeing a nest at an open house is a negative.
- lukejduncan 9y ago
  As a home buyer, why is it a negative? It seems like it would represent such a small % of the purchase price and could be easily included in the negotiation as needing to be removed by the owner before you move in.
  - hkmurakami 9y ago
    Yeah I agree. But I still get a negative psychological reaction since I dislike any and all smarthome products, which colors my impression of the property. Illogical I know, but it's a reality for me and other home buyers / home sellers. It's like staging a home right? None of this furniture comes with the house but how it's staged absolutely influences your impression of the home.
    - andrewem 9y ago
      I get that psychological aspect - it makes you think the current owners have poor judgment, and so what else did they mess up? That's also why you should do simple maintenance and cleaning when trying to sell a house, because if a person neglected to eg rake the leaves, who knows what else was necessary which they didn't do.

Silhouette 9y ago

The not adding value to the house bit is important. Nobody really knows about or cares enough about home automation to justify an added expense on the cost of the home. I'd actually go further. I do care about home automation, because it is almost certainly a negative and possibly a deal-breaker for me to put any offer in to buy a place. If it has anything installed that has any form of off-site access or any dependency on a remote service then I am going to require the existing owner to remove it and make good at their own expense as a condition of any offer (other than possibly a suitably approved alarm system with clearly detailed monitoring arrangements and contacts). Likewise if there is anything installed that relies on any sort of sensors or "smart" control systems, I am going to require credible written guarantees about the security, privacy, safety and longevity of that system, or far more likely it is again going to have to be removed and made good at the current owner's expense as a condition.

commandar 9y ago
The interesting legacy corollary here is that it's completely bog standard for home security systems to be left in place when a house is sold. I say this because the systems that ADT, etc sell these days are largely made up of white labeled COTS Z-Wave sensors with the security panel just being a hub and interface to the Z-Wave network. The house I moved into this past year is covered by sensors for an old ADT system that are useless to me, and I've been slowly removing them and replacing them with equivalent Z-Wave e.g., door and motion sensors as I get to it. Whenever I move, I'll take the hub with me. Any sensors that get left behind would be almost entirely equivalent to an old security system being left in the house except for the fact that they'd be pairable with any system the new owner decides to put in place since they're actually standards based.
- mcguire 9y ago
  Do you have any links to information about standards based products? I haven't run across any casually, which is why i haven't looked.
  - commandar 9y ago
    Most whitelabel home automation stuff runs on the Z-Wave protocol. Zigbee is also fairly popular for some applications; it's what e.g., Philips Hue runs on. Devices using either of these will generally pair with any hub with the appropriate radios like Smart Things. There's additionally a class of home automation stuff that runs over WiFi; they more generally have proprietary communication protocols and I personally avoid them for the most part.
- enobrev 9y ago
  Just as well, if you plan to sign up with ADT, they insist upon new equipment. I just went through this. We bought our house in February. ADT was sending crap almost daily so I called to see what they were offering. They absolutely would not use the 3-year old equipment in the house. Installation would come with new equipment. I didn't care either way, but thought that was notable. No matter; I wasn't interested, and I was happy to get rid of all the their signs and stickers.
  - commandar 9y ago
    Yeah, it's the reason I just went straight to tearing them all out. There is literally nothing ADT's whitelabeled sensors do that standard Z-Wave devices can't at a third the price -- or less! -- without tying me to any specific security company. If I decide to move to any other HA system, I just replace the hub and pair my existing devices back up. In fact, ADT's latest move seems to be piggybacking on Smart Things for HA, but... since I already have Smart Things what do I really need ADT for?
khedoros1 9y ago
Mostly, I don't care about home automation. I don't care so much about the previous owner removing the components, because I'm sure that I can do it when I move in. Anything that can be set up for remote access is at least being disconnected, if not removed entirely.
ensignavenger 9y ago
"if there is anything installed that relies on any sort of sensors" So, no smoke or CO2 alarms in your house?
- Silhouette 9y ago
  Especially things like those. If you can give me evidence they are properly set up, working, and compliant with all applicable advice and regulations, that's great, I'll be happy to have them. Otherwise, get rid of them, and I'll get my own properly fitted by a suitably qualified professional, thanks. Those things save lives, and I'm not going to cut corners to save a few bucks, only to find that your hack job installer didn't connect them to repeat alarms properly throughout the building, or you used some trendy junk that doesn't actually work reliably if the power goes out, Internet is down, or some other dumb thing that should have nothing at all to do with safety systems ever.
  - ensignavenger 9y ago
    All smoke alarms use sensors, whether or not they are connected to the Internet.
    - Silhouette 9y ago
      No kidding...

hkmurakami 9y ago

There are people like me who actively avoid home automation too. Seeing a nest at an open house is a negative.

lukejduncan 9y ago
As a home buyer, why is it a negative? It seems like it would represent such a small % of the purchase price and could be easily included in the negotiation as needing to be removed by the owner before you move in.
- hkmurakami 9y ago
  Yeah I agree. But I still get a negative psychological reaction since I dislike any and all smarthome products, which colors my impression of the property. Illogical I know, but it's a reality for me and other home buyers / home sellers. It's like staging a home right? None of this furniture comes with the house but how it's staged absolutely influences your impression of the home.
  - andrewem 9y ago
    I get that psychological aspect - it makes you think the current owners have poor judgment, and so what else did they mess up? That's also why you should do simple maintenance and cleaning when trying to sell a house, because if a person neglected to eg rake the leaves, who knows what else was necessary which they didn't do.