3 ms·

well, i mean, i know that doing that action is trivial, but isn't a pingback a light form of registration/drm/etc.?

by noodle 16y ago

patio11 16y ago
I might have agreed with you once. These days, Google Analytics tracks 2/3 of pages on the Internet. I already know you downloaded it -- if you think you have a legitimate reason to not let me track that you turned it on once, send me an email and I'll be happy to discuss the many benefits of paying Big Freaking Enterprise pricing with you. I have no desire to do privacy-increasing mechanisms which only help the privacy of pirates, which is what opposition to phone home is (since all legitimate customers left download and purchase logs).
- noodle 16y ago
  i'm not really trying to make an argument about privacy and your rights online type of stuff. i'm just trying to make note of the fact that if you do have something that phones home, can you really say that your product is totally free and clear of that drm/registration/etc type of software practices? more similar to false advertising. "our product will NEVER do this. except, it does, but just a little"
  - grhino 16y ago
    It's also possible to put an online feature in the game like check the high scores or check for updates, and you'll be able to track usage while not having a DRM feature. DRM is about controlling the right to run the software, and I don't think a simple ping back would count as that.
    - noodle 16y ago
      again, that isn't my point. i'm not arguing about what is or isn't DRM. here: >"We released the game DRM-free which means it doesn’t include any anti-piracy protection, therefore the game doesn’t bother players serial codes or online authentication, but it’s also very easy to copy it," Amanita's Jakub Dvorsky explained. "Our estimate from the feedback is that only 5-15 percent of Machinarium players actually paid for the game." 1) they claim to not have any DRM, registration, pingbacks, etc.. they're saying that the 90% (average) number is purely based on feedback. how reliable is this number? i know i ignore most feedback mechanisms by default. 2) if they said all of this, and it turns out that the product does have a pingback or some form of automated feedback, is that not dishonest?
      - jcl 16y ago
        they claim to not have any DRM, registration, pingbacks, etc. If you read what they wrote, they made no statement at all on pingbacks. They define what they mean when they say the game is "DRM-free". And since this definition does not preclude counting up the number of IPs from which the game accesses a particular online resource in the course of normal operation, I would have to say: No, it would not be dishonest of them to do that. Perhaps another example would help: The Fedora Project estimates the number of active users of Fedora by counting the IPs accessing their update servers. Yet I don't think this causes Fedora to contain DRM, nor do I think collecting this information is particularly dishonest.

well, i mean, i know that doing that action is trivial, but isn't a pingback a light form of registration/drm/etc.?

by noodle 16y ago

well, i mean, i know that doing that action is trivial, but isn't a pingback a light form of registration/drm/etc.?

I might have agreed with you once. These days, Google Analytics tracks 2/3 of pages on the Internet. I already know you downloaded it -- if you think you have a legitimate reason to not let me track that you turned it on once, send me an email and I'll be happy to discuss the many benefits of paying Big Freaking Enterprise pricing with you. I have no desire to do privacy-increasing mechanisms which only help the privacy of pirates, which is what opposition to phone home is (since all legitimate customers left download and purchase logs).

noodle 16y ago
i'm not really trying to make an argument about privacy and your rights online type of stuff. i'm just trying to make note of the fact that if you do have something that phones home, can you really say that your product is totally free and clear of that drm/registration/etc type of software practices? more similar to false advertising. "our product will NEVER do this. except, it does, but just a little"
- grhino 16y ago
  It's also possible to put an online feature in the game like check the high scores or check for updates, and you'll be able to track usage while not having a DRM feature. DRM is about controlling the right to run the software, and I don't think a simple ping back would count as that.
  - noodle 16y ago
    again, that isn't my point. i'm not arguing about what is or isn't DRM. here: >"We released the game DRM-free which means it doesn’t include any anti-piracy protection, therefore the game doesn’t bother players serial codes or online authentication, but it’s also very easy to copy it," Amanita's Jakub Dvorsky explained. "Our estimate from the feedback is that only 5-15 percent of Machinarium players actually paid for the game." 1) they claim to not have any DRM, registration, pingbacks, etc.. they're saying that the 90% (average) number is purely based on feedback. how reliable is this number? i know i ignore most feedback mechanisms by default. 2) if they said all of this, and it turns out that the product does have a pingback or some form of automated feedback, is that not dishonest?
    - jcl 16y ago
      they claim to not have any DRM, registration, pingbacks, etc. If you read what they wrote, they made no statement at all on pingbacks. They define what they mean when they say the game is "DRM-free". And since this definition does not preclude counting up the number of IPs from which the game accesses a particular online resource in the course of normal operation, I would have to say: No, it would not be dishonest of them to do that. Perhaps another example would help: The Fedora Project estimates the number of active users of Fedora by counting the IPs accessing their update servers. Yet I don't think this causes Fedora to contain DRM, nor do I think collecting this information is particularly dishonest.