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Thanks for that! I really didn't know they had a response to these claims. However it's not hard to see this can just be a PR shield anyway.

by caio1982 9y ago

welly 9y ago
Then they can't win. An accusation has been made, they've refuted the claims with a response, response is dismissed as a PR shield. What are they going to do?
- awestroke 9y ago
  They could stop doing business with a company that has strong links to IDF.
  - nucleartacos 9y ago
    More anti-Jewish sentiment...
  - seppin 9y ago
    That would be any Israeli tech company. Or any Chinese company (ties to PLA). Quickly becoming more true in the US as well.
    - nucleartacos 9y ago
      Nothing at all wrong with the IDF or Israel. I happily support my Jewish brothers and sisters buy buying Israeli-made goods.
- fooker 9y ago
  Arrange a 3rd party (from a different country) audit?
rocqua 9y ago
For this not to be a PR shield (i.e. for Israel to really be able to read protonmail) the link would have to be an outright lie, or protonmail would have to have shared key data. Heck, even if somehow radware (the BGP-based DDoS proxy they use) had access to protonmails private key or had minted their own SSL cert for protonmail, you'd still be protected by PGP. For outgoing mail, they don't use radware so even if you were to send plaintext emails to a mailserver that doesn't support SSL encryption, radware still wouldn't be able to read that. Unless the linked statement is just a lie, their DDoS protection service is not able to MitM them. Your proposed scheme seems a lot more convoluted than protonmail just giving access to the Israeli government. Similarly, it seems a lot more conspicuous. If you don't want to use them because it indirectly supports an Israeli company, that makes sense, but their DDoS prevention scheme as outlined does not harm privacy in any way.
- pzduniak 9y ago
  > you'd still be protected by PGP. You wouldn't, PGP is verified by code that can be MITM'd if the traffic is spoofed.
  - rocqua 9y ago
    Ah yes, you are right. That darn server-provided client-side code without any decent means of verification really wrecks a lot of security guarantees.
- caio1982 9y ago
  Where did you read I proposed any scheme at all, dude? Saying something looks like a PR shield is a problem now?
  - rocqua 9y ago
    Is something still a PR shield against accusations if it is correct? I'd argue an actual rebuttal to the accusations is more than a PR shield. As described in my response, I consider the article to be a rebuttal of the accusations presuming they are not lying. Thus I conclude that it is not a PR shield. Notably, I'd say that outright lying about facts isn't a PR shield.
eeeeeeeeeeeee 9y ago
You might as well not use the Internet at all.

Thanks for that! I really didn't know they had a response to these claims. However it's not hard to see this can just be a PR shield anyway.

welly 9y ago

Then they can't win. An accusation has been made, they've refuted the claims with a response, response is dismissed as a PR shield. What are they going to do?

awestroke 9y ago
They could stop doing business with a company that has strong links to IDF.
- nucleartacos 9y ago
  More anti-Jewish sentiment...
- seppin 9y ago
  That would be any Israeli tech company. Or any Chinese company (ties to PLA). Quickly becoming more true in the US as well.
  - nucleartacos 9y ago
    Nothing at all wrong with the IDF or Israel. I happily support my Jewish brothers and sisters buy buying Israeli-made goods.
fooker 9y ago
Arrange a 3rd party (from a different country) audit?

rocqua 9y ago

For this not to be a PR shield (i.e. for Israel to really be able to read protonmail) the link would have to be an outright lie, or protonmail would have to have shared key data. Heck, even if somehow radware (the BGP-based DDoS proxy they use) had access to protonmails private key or had minted their own SSL cert for protonmail, you'd still be protected by PGP. For outgoing mail, they don't use radware so even if you were to send plaintext emails to a mailserver that doesn't support SSL encryption, radware still wouldn't be able to read that. Unless the linked statement is just a lie, their DDoS protection service is not able to MitM them. Your proposed scheme seems a lot more convoluted than protonmail just giving access to the Israeli government. Similarly, it seems a lot more conspicuous. If you don't want to use them because it indirectly supports an Israeli company, that makes sense, but their DDoS prevention scheme as outlined does not harm privacy in any way.

pzduniak 9y ago
> you'd still be protected by PGP. You wouldn't, PGP is verified by code that can be MITM'd if the traffic is spoofed.
- rocqua 9y ago
  Ah yes, you are right. That darn server-provided client-side code without any decent means of verification really wrecks a lot of security guarantees.
caio1982 9y ago
Where did you read I proposed any scheme at all, dude? Saying something looks like a PR shield is a problem now?
- rocqua 9y ago
  Is something still a PR shield against accusations if it is correct? I'd argue an actual rebuttal to the accusations is more than a PR shield. As described in my response, I consider the article to be a rebuttal of the accusations presuming they are not lying. Thus I conclude that it is not a PR shield. Notably, I'd say that outright lying about facts isn't a PR shield.

eeeeeeeeeeeee 9y ago

You might as well not use the Internet at all.