5 ms·

On the topic of online board games, I've been really interested in the idea of a pure play-by-email (PBE) system where there isn't a frontend or web interface a

On the topic of online board games, I've been really interested in the idea of a pure play-by-email (PBE) system where there isn't a frontend or web interface at all. By that, I mean that a full game rendering is emailed to each player, and they take their turns by replying to the email with the commands they wish to execute. I started one in Go a number of years ago[1] and I feel I managed to prove to myself that a pure email interface is possible and actually really convenient in some cases. I even managed to implement over 20 games[2]. It was only ever used in my closed circle of friends, but we played thousands of games and many found it simple to participate in slow periods at work or school. If anything, my biggest takeaway was that if you want to really reach a level of expertise in a new technology, you need to find a project that you can pour your heart into. I've probably breached 100k LOC for the project and I've been working on it for over half a decade. I'm currently redoing the project in Rust as an attempt to become highly skilled in that[3]. [1] https://github.com/Miniand/brdg.me https://github.com/Miniand/brdg.me [2] https://github.com/Miniand/brdg.me/tree/master/game https://github.com/Miniand/brdg.me/tree/master/game [3] https://github.com/brdgme https://github.com/brdgme

snekops 9y ago
This is really cool, thanks for sharing. How do you find Rust for this code base compared to Go?
- beefsack 9y ago
  The main reason why I wanted to switch from Go to Rust was I was finding the type system a bit too weak for game implementations. There were even some games I was having trouble implementing at all without resorting to `interface{}` throughout the data structures. Rust has been a challenge but now that I'm fairly proficient it's very well suited to implementing the game data structures. Parsers are much more pleasant to implement in Rust too; I've written a custom parser combinator for game input and it's much easier to handle input in Rust than it is in Go.
  - siscia 9y ago
    I, as well, don't love go and I prefer rust especially for the type system. I would like to hear the negative side of switching from go to rust.
    - beefsack 9y ago
      It's not that I don't like Go, it definitely has its place, but for this particular use case I found it a little painful. Personally, the things I really missed after moving to Rust are quick compile times and very high quality editor plugins. These are areas which the Rust community are putting a lot of effort into at the moment though so I'm hopeful they'll continue to improve.
  - akavel 9y ago
    Would you care to write an "Experience Report" for benefit of the Go community and development future? Pretty, pretty please! The rationale and idea is described on https://blog.golang.org/toward-go2#TOC_5.3 https://blog.golang.org/toward-go2#TOC_5.3. and https://blog.golang.org/toward-go2#TOC_8 https://blog.golang.org/toward-go2#TOC_8. , with an important note to later "publish it" (i.e. just link) on https://golang.org/wiki/ExperienceReports https://golang.org/wiki/ExperienceReports. Yours seems to be an awesomely perfect case — a real-world situation, with additional case study of how a new language helps you solve the pain points!
samdk 9y ago
This is not the same thing, but you might be interested in taking a look at the excellent online Terra Mystica implementation (https://terra.snellman.net/ https://terra.snellman.net/) if you haven't seen it already. It's a web interface, but the underlying representation is text-based, and you can type in the commands directly if you want. This leads to some nice features--for example, you can plan your moves several steps ahead of time, and you get a game log for free. There creator wrote a blog post about that particular design decision: https://www.snellman.net/blog/archive/2014-12-08-command-languages-as-game-ui/ https://www.snellman.net/blog/archive/2014-12-08-command-lan...
- beefsack 9y ago
  Yeah, in my experience having a pure text interface proves to be a very complex design challenge but it enables so much cool stuff. One interesting side effect is that it makes writing bots quite simple.
c17r 9y ago
You might be interested in http://gamesbyemail.com/ http://gamesbyemail.com/
- beefsack 9y ago
  I've played a lot of Mergers on there, and that's actually what inspired me to make my own. It's not pure PBE as it just uses emails for notifications and you make your plays in the web interface.
jbattle 9y ago
The board game Diplomacy had a really thriving play by post community, which morphed into play by email. I'm actually not sure if there is a platform that actually supports play-by-email anymore (the ones I used to use seem defunct). But there's this (claims to support play by email but I couldn't find actual directions in 2 minutes of reading around): http://www.diplomaticcorp.com/ http://www.diplomaticcorp.com/ When I played this ~10 years ago the main interface was just plain email. You'd send and email with the body containing commands like so: signon gamename password A PAR-BUR A MAR-SPA F BRE-MAO signoff Then there was a website that subscribed to your game as a observer and would render views of the map
- beefsack 9y ago
  A lot of 18XX games seem to have strong play-by-post communities too, which are interesting from a pure play-by-email perspective because they have already encoded a command vocabulary which could be implemented instead of needing to design from scratch.
- zouhair 9y ago
  Dunno about other games, but Lichess[0] has a correspondence gameplay mechanism[1] [0] https://lichess.org/ https://lichess.org/ [1] https://i.imgur.com/nYgMjuB.png https://i.imgur.com/nYgMjuB.png
- joshklein 9y ago
  This is tangential to the play-by-email thread of discussion, but I want to share that I've had a positive experience at http://playdiplomacy.com http://playdiplomacy.com
- rkangel 9y ago
  We have an ongoing series of games at work hosted by the wonderfully named service 'backstabbr.com'.
shagie 9y ago
From days of old, I used to play on gamerz.net - http://www.gamerz.net/pbmserv/ http://www.gamerz.net/pbmserv/ While some of them have graphical views now, in days of old it was all monospace ascii in an email message. The game there that I especially enjoyed was Firetop Mountain - http://www.gamerz.net/fm/Main/ http://www.gamerz.net/fm/Main/

snekops 9y ago

This is really cool, thanks for sharing. How do you find Rust for this code base compared to Go?

beefsack 9y ago
The main reason why I wanted to switch from Go to Rust was I was finding the type system a bit too weak for game implementations. There were even some games I was having trouble implementing at all without resorting to `interface{}` throughout the data structures. Rust has been a challenge but now that I'm fairly proficient it's very well suited to implementing the game data structures. Parsers are much more pleasant to implement in Rust too; I've written a custom parser combinator for game input and it's much easier to handle input in Rust than it is in Go.
- siscia 9y ago
  I, as well, don't love go and I prefer rust especially for the type system. I would like to hear the negative side of switching from go to rust.
  - beefsack 9y ago
    It's not that I don't like Go, it definitely has its place, but for this particular use case I found it a little painful. Personally, the things I really missed after moving to Rust are quick compile times and very high quality editor plugins. These are areas which the Rust community are putting a lot of effort into at the moment though so I'm hopeful they'll continue to improve.
- akavel 9y ago
  Would you care to write an "Experience Report" for benefit of the Go community and development future? Pretty, pretty please! The rationale and idea is described on https://blog.golang.org/toward-go2#TOC_5.3 https://blog.golang.org/toward-go2#TOC_5.3. and https://blog.golang.org/toward-go2#TOC_8 https://blog.golang.org/toward-go2#TOC_8. , with an important note to later "publish it" (i.e. just link) on https://golang.org/wiki/ExperienceReports https://golang.org/wiki/ExperienceReports. Yours seems to be an awesomely perfect case — a real-world situation, with additional case study of how a new language helps you solve the pain points!

samdk 9y ago

This is not the same thing, but you might be interested in taking a look at the excellent online Terra Mystica implementation (https://terra.snellman.net/ https://terra.snellman.net/) if you haven't seen it already. It's a web interface, but the underlying representation is text-based, and you can type in the commands directly if you want. This leads to some nice features--for example, you can plan your moves several steps ahead of time, and you get a game log for free. There creator wrote a blog post about that particular design decision: https://www.snellman.net/blog/archive/2014-12-08-command-languages-as-game-ui/ https://www.snellman.net/blog/archive/2014-12-08-command-lan...

beefsack 9y ago
Yeah, in my experience having a pure text interface proves to be a very complex design challenge but it enables so much cool stuff. One interesting side effect is that it makes writing bots quite simple.

c17r 9y ago

You might be interested in http://gamesbyemail.com/ http://gamesbyemail.com/

beefsack 9y ago
I've played a lot of Mergers on there, and that's actually what inspired me to make my own. It's not pure PBE as it just uses emails for notifications and you make your plays in the web interface.

jbattle 9y ago

The board game Diplomacy had a really thriving play by post community, which morphed into play by email. I'm actually not sure if there is a platform that actually supports play-by-email anymore (the ones I used to use seem defunct). But there's this (claims to support play by email but I couldn't find actual directions in 2 minutes of reading around): http://www.diplomaticcorp.com/ http://www.diplomaticcorp.com/ When I played this ~10 years ago the main interface was just plain email. You'd send and email with the body containing commands like so: signon gamename password A PAR-BUR A MAR-SPA F BRE-MAO signoff Then there was a website that subscribed to your game as a observer and would render views of the map

beefsack 9y ago
A lot of 18XX games seem to have strong play-by-post communities too, which are interesting from a pure play-by-email perspective because they have already encoded a command vocabulary which could be implemented instead of needing to design from scratch.
zouhair 9y ago
Dunno about other games, but Lichess[0] has a correspondence gameplay mechanism[1] [0] https://lichess.org/ https://lichess.org/ [1] https://i.imgur.com/nYgMjuB.png https://i.imgur.com/nYgMjuB.png
joshklein 9y ago
This is tangential to the play-by-email thread of discussion, but I want to share that I've had a positive experience at http://playdiplomacy.com http://playdiplomacy.com
rkangel 9y ago
We have an ongoing series of games at work hosted by the wonderfully named service 'backstabbr.com'.

shagie 9y ago

From days of old, I used to play on gamerz.net - http://www.gamerz.net/pbmserv/ http://www.gamerz.net/pbmserv/ While some of them have graphical views now, in days of old it was all monospace ascii in an email message. The game there that I especially enjoyed was Firetop Mountain - http://www.gamerz.net/fm/Main/ http://www.gamerz.net/fm/Main/