5 ms·

I'm going to argue that this is a feature, and you're already less likely to die on the road, thanks to those annoyances. We've known that humans tailgate like

I'm going to argue that this is a feature, and you're already less likely to die on the road, thanks to those annoyances. We've known that humans tailgate like hell for decades, and haven't found a cure. Cruise vehicles have pointed out that you (like almost everyone else) tailgate to a dangerous degree, and have at least slightly changed that behavior. If that saves you from a violent high-speed collision in a year or two, you owe them your life. Having a sprinkling of more "ethical" vehicles around might be a good thing.

wovi 9y ago
On one hand I totally agree with you in that it's your fault if you're tailgating and can't safely stop, regardless of what the vehicle in front of you is doing. However, I totally sympathize with him, living in Pittsburgh and driving in proximity to Uber's and a few other company's cars. There have been times when I've been following an autonomous car and it makes a turn onto a completely clear road, then suddenly slams on the brakes for no observable reason. Yes, I should be ready to handle this situation, but it's certainly not expected. Knowing that Uber safety drivers intervene an average of about once a mile certainly makes me wary of these cars and not enjoy driving around them.
- foobarian 9y ago
  Interesting, wonder if it will become necessary to build automated car coordination networks past a certain density. Systems like these could get into funny feedback loops where one car stops dead, causing the next one to stop dead, take off, rinse and repeat. Or, my favorite part of living near Boston, the traffic circles; I can't wait for the day a convoy of automated cars deadlocks a rotary :-)
  - aptwebapps 9y ago
    Feedback loops are how we get traffic jams right now. A well-built synchronized system should be less susceptible to them than the current, unsynchronized one.
schwap 9y ago
Ah, optimizing for maximal sanctimony. Interesting concept.
- Nomentatus 9y ago
  No, it's all of us, nobody's a saint, we all need reminders.
jchanimal 9y ago
Agree. I’m looking forward to being able to walk / bike without taking on other drivers externalities in the form of risk.
Nomentatus 9y ago
There is a general rule here, that I forgot to state - we should probably be building scare-factor variability into automatic safety systems of all kinds; to ward off risk homeostasis. So people don't just press their luck until the safety cushion is gone.
chiefofgxbxl 9y ago
> We've known that humans tailgate like hell for decades, and haven't found a cure. Haven't found a solution, or have found one and haven't implemented it? For example, I've been recently pondering how to resolve tailgating. How about a system like this: Vehicles will be mandated to have distance sensors in both front and rear (some already have this for sake of back-up cameras and auto-braking), essentially a car sonar system. If your car is moving, it detects the distance between you and those in front and in back. If you are traveling too closely to the car in front of you (tailgating), your vehicle will be mandated to emit a warning buzz sound in the cabin, which intensifies in strength the smaller the gap. For someone tailgating you, perhaps a visual indication behind. This way the closer one tailgates, the more audible (and possibly visual) feedback a driver gets. Hopefully the audio is annoying enough that most sensible tailgaters (oxymoron?) would back off. Strengthen this with a visual indicator on the roof of the vehicle, perhaps, so that if someone is tailgating, a light on the roof turns on indicating such. Would make it trivial for police officers and traffic cams to notice. I think part of bad driving behavior is the anonymity cars today offer: with tinted glass and the feeling like you're in a safe, sound-proof cocoon, so this visual indicator may help shatter that in a good way.
- King-Aaron 9y ago
  I find turning on my Antilag is a good solution to tail-gaters. Nothing like shooting fire at the car behind under deceleration to give you a bit of room.
  - Nomentatus 9y ago
    Let's just make it legal to equip your car with a flamethrower on the back as long as the flames don't go out further than 20 feet while your car is stationary, and it only activates when an inbuilt radar detects a tailgater behind you.
- Nomentatus 9y ago
  I agree, we are at the point where this should be done. To update an old saying: "A stricture by a nanny-state in time saves nine."
omarforgotpwd 9y ago
I don’t think so. Humans employ more advanced techniques when they’re driving, and as autonomous systems improve they should be able to do these “risky” moves too. Right now the primary concern is safety, so V1 will be overly cautious to the point of causing problems. Things will start to get interesting when the system is hyper-accurate and can route cars around at high speeds within seconds of hitting each other for maximum efficiency. Humans employ these driving techniques not because they’re stupid, but because they’re confident that they can pull off these moves safely (even though that is sometimes not true). In the future I’d expect the software to also advance to a state where it can confidently speed and pull off risky moves.
- Nomentatus 9y ago
  I think you've missed my point, which was narrow - the stated "problem" is much better than a fiery collision problem. Of course, there are other problems (bugs really) still extant that don't have an upside I can see - such as remaining stationary and letting another vehicle back into you from 20 ft away, out of "caution"; which I think is a rough description Las Vegas crash. I don't doubt that AI that isn't ethical (say causes others to crash sometimes, but saves you ten seconds) could be create and might appeal to many, but I don't look forward to this development.

wovi 9y ago

On one hand I totally agree with you in that it's your fault if you're tailgating and can't safely stop, regardless of what the vehicle in front of you is doing. However, I totally sympathize with him, living in Pittsburgh and driving in proximity to Uber's and a few other company's cars. There have been times when I've been following an autonomous car and it makes a turn onto a completely clear road, then suddenly slams on the brakes for no observable reason. Yes, I should be ready to handle this situation, but it's certainly not expected. Knowing that Uber safety drivers intervene an average of about once a mile certainly makes me wary of these cars and not enjoy driving around them.

foobarian 9y ago
Interesting, wonder if it will become necessary to build automated car coordination networks past a certain density. Systems like these could get into funny feedback loops where one car stops dead, causing the next one to stop dead, take off, rinse and repeat. Or, my favorite part of living near Boston, the traffic circles; I can't wait for the day a convoy of automated cars deadlocks a rotary :-)
- aptwebapps 9y ago
  Feedback loops are how we get traffic jams right now. A well-built synchronized system should be less susceptible to them than the current, unsynchronized one.

schwap 9y ago

Ah, optimizing for maximal sanctimony. Interesting concept.

Nomentatus 9y ago
No, it's all of us, nobody's a saint, we all need reminders.

jchanimal 9y ago

Agree. I’m looking forward to being able to walk / bike without taking on other drivers externalities in the form of risk.

Nomentatus 9y ago

There is a general rule here, that I forgot to state - we should probably be building scare-factor variability into automatic safety systems of all kinds; to ward off risk homeostasis. So people don't just press their luck until the safety cushion is gone.

chiefofgxbxl 9y ago

> We've known that humans tailgate like hell for decades, and haven't found a cure. Haven't found a solution, or have found one and haven't implemented it? For example, I've been recently pondering how to resolve tailgating. How about a system like this: Vehicles will be mandated to have distance sensors in both front and rear (some already have this for sake of back-up cameras and auto-braking), essentially a car sonar system. If your car is moving, it detects the distance between you and those in front and in back. If you are traveling too closely to the car in front of you (tailgating), your vehicle will be mandated to emit a warning buzz sound in the cabin, which intensifies in strength the smaller the gap. For someone tailgating you, perhaps a visual indication behind. This way the closer one tailgates, the more audible (and possibly visual) feedback a driver gets. Hopefully the audio is annoying enough that most sensible tailgaters (oxymoron?) would back off. Strengthen this with a visual indicator on the roof of the vehicle, perhaps, so that if someone is tailgating, a light on the roof turns on indicating such. Would make it trivial for police officers and traffic cams to notice. I think part of bad driving behavior is the anonymity cars today offer: with tinted glass and the feeling like you're in a safe, sound-proof cocoon, so this visual indicator may help shatter that in a good way.

King-Aaron 9y ago
I find turning on my Antilag is a good solution to tail-gaters. Nothing like shooting fire at the car behind under deceleration to give you a bit of room.
- Nomentatus 9y ago
  Let's just make it legal to equip your car with a flamethrower on the back as long as the flames don't go out further than 20 feet while your car is stationary, and it only activates when an inbuilt radar detects a tailgater behind you.
Nomentatus 9y ago
I agree, we are at the point where this should be done. To update an old saying: "A stricture by a nanny-state in time saves nine."

omarforgotpwd 9y ago

I don’t think so. Humans employ more advanced techniques when they’re driving, and as autonomous systems improve they should be able to do these “risky” moves too. Right now the primary concern is safety, so V1 will be overly cautious to the point of causing problems. Things will start to get interesting when the system is hyper-accurate and can route cars around at high speeds within seconds of hitting each other for maximum efficiency. Humans employ these driving techniques not because they’re stupid, but because they’re confident that they can pull off these moves safely (even though that is sometimes not true). In the future I’d expect the software to also advance to a state where it can confidently speed and pull off risky moves.

Nomentatus 9y ago
I think you've missed my point, which was narrow - the stated "problem" is much better than a fiery collision problem. Of course, there are other problems (bugs really) still extant that don't have an upside I can see - such as remaining stationary and letting another vehicle back into you from 20 ft away, out of "caution"; which I think is a rough description Las Vegas crash. I don't doubt that AI that isn't ethical (say causes others to crash sometimes, but saves you ten seconds) could be create and might appeal to many, but I don't look forward to this development.