>arguably you are making the same trade as someone buying bitcoin or gold I think the difference here is that people can intuitively justify changes in the val

>arguably you are making the same trade as someone buying bitcoin or gold I think the difference here is that people can intuitively justify changes in the value of a stock regardless of buybacks and dividends because company performance is a tangible, measurable factor (even if only by proxy of flawed but useful metrics). The value of gold is more vaguely determined by market perception/speculation (e.g. gold doesn't have quarterly earnings reports with detailed accounting). Ultimately something has value as long as people believe it has value, but I think the discomfort from folks like Bogle comes from the lack of a rigorous method for valuation vs. assets like equities.