4 ms·

Those figures do not justify giving up a job in a cheap cost of living area. These numbers are about 60% more than corporate salaries where I live, but the cos

Those figures do not justify giving up a job in a cheap cost of living area. These numbers are about 60% more than corporate salaries where I live, but the cost of living in SV is roughly 3-10x greater.

alistairSH 9y ago
As noted below, the data set appears to be VERY start-up heavy. So, there's a bias towards both younger developers AND more compensation via equity. I would expect Apple and Google to pay significantly more. But, to your point, even at Apple or Google salaries, moving to SV would be tough for somebody mid-career (ie, with a house elsewhere that likely doesn't have enough equity to swap for a house in SV).
swolchok 9y ago
> These numbers are about 60% more than corporate salaries where I live, but the cost of living in SV is roughly 3-10x greater. Your point doesn't necessarily follow from your argument. For example, if salaries where you live were $1,000,000 per year and the cost of living was $10,000, you would gain $600,000 per year in salary and lose up to $90,000 per year in costs, for a net profit of $510,000.
- loeg 9y ago
  Your first-principles argument is logically correct, but totally ignores the actual costs of living and salary in the given areas. The grandparent point stands just fine.
  - pseudonom- 9y ago
    The first principles argument is consonant with my actual experience in the Midwest and SV. I have vastly more money left over after living expenses in SV.
    - austincheney 9y ago
      Are you single? I imagine you find a reasonably priced small apartment for a single person in SV. I doubt you can find a reasonably priced 3000 sqft house in SV.
arebop 9y ago
These numbers don't include substantial compensation elements such as bonus and equity. Having said that I think you're right. Also, IMO one should not compare the median engineer in SV to the median engineer elsewhere. A median SV engineer moving to LCOL should be able to do a lot better than median LCOL comp.
- austincheney 9y ago
  Is there data suggesting that SV developers have superior capabilities?
xenadu02 9y ago
That's not correct. I moved from a low COL area to SF and despite that the take-home pay (after expenses) is far better in SF. Some people pay out the nose to live in luxury apartments in SOMA; I don't consider that sensible. I rent an entire house with yard and garage for less money. Working for one of the big public tech companies pays way more than these numbers indicate. For a senior engineer RSUs should be anywhere from 50-150% of base. Base should be at least $180k if not more. Total gross for the year is in the $300-400k range. If you live a similar lifestyle in SF as you did elsewhere you should be able to build wealth relatively easily. Assuming the economy doesn't completely crash I intend to buy a house here in the next 5 years; whether I pay all $1.5m in cash or have a mortgage depends on how the stock market does.

alistairSH 9y ago

As noted below, the data set appears to be VERY start-up heavy. So, there's a bias towards both younger developers AND more compensation via equity. I would expect Apple and Google to pay significantly more. But, to your point, even at Apple or Google salaries, moving to SV would be tough for somebody mid-career (ie, with a house elsewhere that likely doesn't have enough equity to swap for a house in SV).

swolchok 9y ago

> These numbers are about 60% more than corporate salaries where I live, but the cost of living in SV is roughly 3-10x greater. Your point doesn't necessarily follow from your argument. For example, if salaries where you live were $1,000,000 per year and the cost of living was $10,000, you would gain $600,000 per year in salary and lose up to $90,000 per year in costs, for a net profit of $510,000.

loeg 9y ago
Your first-principles argument is logically correct, but totally ignores the actual costs of living and salary in the given areas. The grandparent point stands just fine.
- pseudonom- 9y ago
  The first principles argument is consonant with my actual experience in the Midwest and SV. I have vastly more money left over after living expenses in SV.
  - austincheney 9y ago
    Are you single? I imagine you find a reasonably priced small apartment for a single person in SV. I doubt you can find a reasonably priced 3000 sqft house in SV.

arebop 9y ago

These numbers don't include substantial compensation elements such as bonus and equity. Having said that I think you're right. Also, IMO one should not compare the median engineer in SV to the median engineer elsewhere. A median SV engineer moving to LCOL should be able to do a lot better than median LCOL comp.

austincheney 9y ago
Is there data suggesting that SV developers have superior capabilities?

xenadu02 9y ago

That's not correct. I moved from a low COL area to SF and despite that the take-home pay (after expenses) is far better in SF. Some people pay out the nose to live in luxury apartments in SOMA; I don't consider that sensible. I rent an entire house with yard and garage for less money. Working for one of the big public tech companies pays way more than these numbers indicate. For a senior engineer RSUs should be anywhere from 50-150% of base. Base should be at least $180k if not more. Total gross for the year is in the $300-400k range. If you live a similar lifestyle in SF as you did elsewhere you should be able to build wealth relatively easily. Assuming the economy doesn't completely crash I intend to buy a house here in the next 5 years; whether I pay all $1.5m in cash or have a mortgage depends on how the stock market does.