4 ms·

Off-topic, but it blows my mind how poorly proofread many articles are nowadays. In this example, there's a 3-word sentence fragment - "That login gave" - hang

Off-topic, but it blows my mind how poorly proofread many articles are nowadays. In this example, there's a 3-word sentence fragment - "That login gave" - hanging out in between two other sentences. If the author even read what he'd written once before posting, he ought to have caught that.

sandworm101 9y ago
The ability to write is largely ignored at tech firms these days. Grammar is viewed as a bunch of stodgy rules to be ignored at will. Some are indeed silly throwbacks, but the basic structures are what allow us to communicate effectively. Drop them and errors in understanding creep into nearly every email. Yesterday I had a back-and-forth with a boss over "login", "log in", "log in to" and "log into". That might seem silly but little things really do matter. (fyi, login = noun. Log in = verb. We never settled on 'into' or 'in to'.)
- pdpi 9y ago
  Surely: log into -> write to a specific log log in to -> access a certain host no?
  - hirsin 9y ago
    Fwiw, I've always used "log to" for writing out logs. "Log to stderr". So, you know, extra fun deciding what's "correct".
    - pdpi 9y ago
      Sure, but that wasn't one of the options, and doesn't (to me) make the "into" case ambiguous :)
    - exabrial 9y ago
      In my tech writing class for the sciences, my teacher said, "Never use a noun when you could use a verb". Meaning, she would suggest saying: "Write a log to" and "User logs in to"; which are far more clear in their intent. :) I think it's amazing we can even understand each other sometimes; English is quite a terrible language.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- zaphos 9y ago
  Check the dictionary -- "login" is also used as a verb: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/login?s=t http://www.dictionary.com/browse/login?s=t With a usage note that some people dislike it: > And yet, this gluing together of terms like login, logon, backup, and setup as verbs is common, especially in writing about computers. Not for everyone, however. Some well-known software companies, for example, carefully maintain the distinction in their programs and documentation. But habits are difficult to change. Those who react to the one-word verb as an error will probably have to get used to it, and those who use the one-word verb will have to recognize that others will see it and wince.
- drostie 9y ago
  It's "log in to," as "log" is a verb whose meaning changes when it accepts the preposition "in". Dutch has this much more systematically than English, where when this happens you can form the infinitive for the verb by prepending the verb with the preposition. So "someone who breaks in" would be an "in-breaker" and the infinitive form is "to in-break". (In modern English one would have to say a "breaker-inner" to convey the idea of one who breaks in.) Similarly the Dutch might look at the verb "with-hold" and assume that you would say "the company held with that information, not disclosing it" rather than "the company withheld that information." Anyway, since the verb is "in-log" you "log in", as opposed to the conventional meanings for the verb "logging" (writing down something or clearing trees) where you might "log into" (respectively writing down into, or clearing trees from).
sha666sum 9y ago
I'm no journalist, but I guess that being first to report is more important than minor errors in the article.
- bsimpson 9y ago
  I don't know what timezone the article is in, but it's been at least an hour. Even if "post, then edit" were the strategy, the author clearly didn't read it after hitting publish either.
  - ghostly_s 9y ago
    Most writers for online establishments have quotas of multiple articles/day, these days. Don't blame the writer.
ringaroundthetx 9y ago
> worldwide computer vulnerability hey, your preposition is auditing process is broken

sandworm101 9y ago

The ability to write is largely ignored at tech firms these days. Grammar is viewed as a bunch of stodgy rules to be ignored at will. Some are indeed silly throwbacks, but the basic structures are what allow us to communicate effectively. Drop them and errors in understanding creep into nearly every email. Yesterday I had a back-and-forth with a boss over "login", "log in", "log in to" and "log into". That might seem silly but little things really do matter. (fyi, login = noun. Log in = verb. We never settled on 'into' or 'in to'.)

pdpi 9y ago
Surely: log into -> write to a specific log log in to -> access a certain host no?
- hirsin 9y ago
  Fwiw, I've always used "log to" for writing out logs. "Log to stderr". So, you know, extra fun deciding what's "correct".
  - pdpi 9y ago
    Sure, but that wasn't one of the options, and doesn't (to me) make the "into" case ambiguous :)
  - exabrial 9y ago
    In my tech writing class for the sciences, my teacher said, "Never use a noun when you could use a verb". Meaning, she would suggest saying: "Write a log to" and "User logs in to"; which are far more clear in their intent. :) I think it's amazing we can even understand each other sometimes; English is quite a terrible language.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
zaphos 9y ago
Check the dictionary -- "login" is also used as a verb: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/login?s=t http://www.dictionary.com/browse/login?s=t With a usage note that some people dislike it: > And yet, this gluing together of terms like login, logon, backup, and setup as verbs is common, especially in writing about computers. Not for everyone, however. Some well-known software companies, for example, carefully maintain the distinction in their programs and documentation. But habits are difficult to change. Those who react to the one-word verb as an error will probably have to get used to it, and those who use the one-word verb will have to recognize that others will see it and wince.
drostie 9y ago
It's "log in to," as "log" is a verb whose meaning changes when it accepts the preposition "in". Dutch has this much more systematically than English, where when this happens you can form the infinitive for the verb by prepending the verb with the preposition. So "someone who breaks in" would be an "in-breaker" and the infinitive form is "to in-break". (In modern English one would have to say a "breaker-inner" to convey the idea of one who breaks in.) Similarly the Dutch might look at the verb "with-hold" and assume that you would say "the company held with that information, not disclosing it" rather than "the company withheld that information." Anyway, since the verb is "in-log" you "log in", as opposed to the conventional meanings for the verb "logging" (writing down something or clearing trees) where you might "log into" (respectively writing down into, or clearing trees from).

sha666sum 9y ago

I'm no journalist, but I guess that being first to report is more important than minor errors in the article.

bsimpson 9y ago
I don't know what timezone the article is in, but it's been at least an hour. Even if "post, then edit" were the strategy, the author clearly didn't read it after hitting publish either.
- ghostly_s 9y ago
  Most writers for online establishments have quotas of multiple articles/day, these days. Don't blame the writer.

ringaroundthetx 9y ago

> worldwide computer vulnerability hey, your preposition is auditing process is broken