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I will never do this. I don't even post photos of myself on FB, or use "Messenger" or their mobile app, so it probably wouldn't work anyway, but I have no doubt

by oblib 9y ago

I will never do this. I don't even post photos of myself on FB, or use "Messenger" or their mobile app, so it probably wouldn't work anyway, but I have no doubt they're looking to monetize the feature and that businesses and governments are their target markets.

Harkins 9y ago
They still have your face from scanning your friends' photos and contacts. Combine datestamp, location, messages, and posts over years and Facebook knows who was together for a photo whether or not you've uploaded any or been tagged. Facebook knows the face of everyone who is on Facebook or who knows a few people who are.
- staplers 9y ago
  I can pull a fingerprint off the subway stair rails but that doesn't mean I can identify who it is. We anonymously reveal ourselves everyday but the danger comes from confirming which data is ours. The goal is to make it difficult not impossible.
  - sandworm101 9y ago
    They don't need you to confirm it. This isn't a criminal case. They just need to be reasonably confident. Your face is in a picture with four other people. They can see that phones belonging to four people, who regularly chat with each other, were all at the same location at the time the photo was taken. They are now reasonably confident that your face is one of those four. Do that five or six times and their robots will know your face. Whether you confirm it or not doesn't really matter.
    - staplers 9y ago
      They can see that phones belonging to four people, who regularly chat with each other, were all at the same location at the time the photo was taken. How would they "see" your phone without the facebook app installed?
      - sandworm101 9y ago
        They buy/rent that data from google or any of a thousand other companies that might have access to your phone's location.
  - jhasse 9y ago
    Thing is: Grabbing fingerprints from the subway doesn't scale. Machine learning does.
- oblib 9y ago
  No, not really. There are not many of photos of me on the web and any that are were taken from a distance and too low res to id me. I've been stingy about that for a long time. FB doesn't have my phone number and I disabled the email address I used to sign up. I delete all my cookies often and use different browsers and turn off and reset my modem to get a new IP address. I have no apps on my phone, don't use iCloud, and don't use the native "Contacts" app, I made my own for that. I know I'm still being tracked, but not as much as most and I don't think FB could ID me right now with photos they have.
  - 659087 9y ago
    > FB doesn't have my phone number If anyone who has you in their contact list uses Facebook, I can pretty much guarantee they have your number.
    - csydas 9y ago
      Yeah this is the real rub; even if you yourself do not give Facebook information, it's been proven that they collect profiles on you. Anyone who has messaged you, has you in their contacts, sent you invites, added you to groups, all this gets added to a hidden profile. You are being tracked whether you gave out info or not.
  - jpindar 9y ago
    >don't use the native "Contacts" app, I made my own for that. That's a good idea. You could then grant other apps permission to see your contacts, but have the app optionally return fake or empty data.
    - pishpash 9y ago
      This. Fake data should always be returned, unless explicit permission is granted for real data.
    - mcintyre1994 9y ago
      I doubt iOS lets a custom contacts app respond to a request from another app for contacts though. It'll presumably respond empty data (since they have no contacts in the native app), but with no option to give it the actual contacts if you wanted to.
_jal 9y ago
I'm pretty sure it is about training their users to surrender biometrics on demand. FB wants their feedstock comfortable with the idea.
- shostack 9y ago
  I wonder if they are using their camera permissions in Messenger to automatically grab an image when someone opens the app...is there any way to verify that?
incompatible 9y ago
Perhaps a workaround would be to pick a random celebrity, somebody with a lot of photos online, and upload one of those. Facebook would have no way of knowing that it's not you, and they aren't likely to complain that you look like somebody else, since facial recognition will likely always pick up loads of duplicates when used on a global scale.
- incompatible 9y ago
  Alright, they are using it when you've been locked out of your account to verify that you are who you say you are. You'd have to seed the account in advance by uploading some photos and identifying them as yourself, and you'd have to be able to find photos that haven't been uploaded to Facebook previously.
  - incompatible 9y ago
    Accounts using celebrities as a profile picture may actually be easier to hack, since the hacker can just upload another picture of that celebrity when challenged.

by oblib 9y ago

Harkins 9y ago

They still have your face from scanning your friends' photos and contacts. Combine datestamp, location, messages, and posts over years and Facebook knows who was together for a photo whether or not you've uploaded any or been tagged. Facebook knows the face of everyone who is on Facebook or who knows a few people who are.

staplers 9y ago
I can pull a fingerprint off the subway stair rails but that doesn't mean I can identify who it is. We anonymously reveal ourselves everyday but the danger comes from confirming which data is ours. The goal is to make it difficult not impossible.
- sandworm101 9y ago
  They don't need you to confirm it. This isn't a criminal case. They just need to be reasonably confident. Your face is in a picture with four other people. They can see that phones belonging to four people, who regularly chat with each other, were all at the same location at the time the photo was taken. They are now reasonably confident that your face is one of those four. Do that five or six times and their robots will know your face. Whether you confirm it or not doesn't really matter.
  - staplers 9y ago
    They can see that phones belonging to four people, who regularly chat with each other, were all at the same location at the time the photo was taken. How would they "see" your phone without the facebook app installed?
    - sandworm101 9y ago
      They buy/rent that data from google or any of a thousand other companies that might have access to your phone's location.
- jhasse 9y ago
  Thing is: Grabbing fingerprints from the subway doesn't scale. Machine learning does.
oblib 9y ago
No, not really. There are not many of photos of me on the web and any that are were taken from a distance and too low res to id me. I've been stingy about that for a long time. FB doesn't have my phone number and I disabled the email address I used to sign up. I delete all my cookies often and use different browsers and turn off and reset my modem to get a new IP address. I have no apps on my phone, don't use iCloud, and don't use the native "Contacts" app, I made my own for that. I know I'm still being tracked, but not as much as most and I don't think FB could ID me right now with photos they have.
- 659087 9y ago
  > FB doesn't have my phone number If anyone who has you in their contact list uses Facebook, I can pretty much guarantee they have your number.
  - csydas 9y ago
    Yeah this is the real rub; even if you yourself do not give Facebook information, it's been proven that they collect profiles on you. Anyone who has messaged you, has you in their contacts, sent you invites, added you to groups, all this gets added to a hidden profile. You are being tracked whether you gave out info or not.
- jpindar 9y ago
  >don't use the native "Contacts" app, I made my own for that. That's a good idea. You could then grant other apps permission to see your contacts, but have the app optionally return fake or empty data.
  - pishpash 9y ago
    This. Fake data should always be returned, unless explicit permission is granted for real data.
  - mcintyre1994 9y ago
    I doubt iOS lets a custom contacts app respond to a request from another app for contacts though. It'll presumably respond empty data (since they have no contacts in the native app), but with no option to give it the actual contacts if you wanted to.

_jal 9y ago

I'm pretty sure it is about training their users to surrender biometrics on demand. FB wants their feedstock comfortable with the idea.

shostack 9y ago
I wonder if they are using their camera permissions in Messenger to automatically grab an image when someone opens the app...is there any way to verify that?

incompatible 9y ago

Perhaps a workaround would be to pick a random celebrity, somebody with a lot of photos online, and upload one of those. Facebook would have no way of knowing that it's not you, and they aren't likely to complain that you look like somebody else, since facial recognition will likely always pick up loads of duplicates when used on a global scale.

incompatible 9y ago
Alright, they are using it when you've been locked out of your account to verify that you are who you say you are. You'd have to seed the account in advance by uploading some photos and identifying them as yourself, and you'd have to be able to find photos that haven't been uploaded to Facebook previously.
- incompatible 9y ago
  Accounts using celebrities as a profile picture may actually be easier to hack, since the hacker can just upload another picture of that celebrity when challenged.