5 ms·

Don't forget that Larry dated Marissa for a long time, and she was his subordinate. And then there's Eric, who was notorious... Anyway, my understanding was th

Don't forget that Larry dated Marissa for a long time, and she was his subordinate. And then there's Eric, who was notorious... Anyway, my understanding was that it has historically been OK at Google to date subordinates, so I'm waiting for more to come out because I can't imagine that "he had a consensual relationship with a subordinate" is all that's going on here. But maybe someone who has worked there for a long time can correct me?

ronilan 9y ago
A lot of things have been "historically OK" (at Google and elsewhere), but are no longer acceptable in today's society. It is called progress. Reminds me of this: https://youtu.be/GrlEQ15mVPM https://youtu.be/GrlEQ15mVPM
- jstewartmobile 9y ago
  Not so sure about chalking it up to progress. Looks more like power having its perks to me...
- jonstokes 9y ago
  Edit: Reading this reply in Comic Book Guy voice and cracking up... :)
  - ronilan 9y ago
    Seriously dude, that's how you preach the path of the righteous: https://youtu.be/3PeyiU3uWJ8 https://youtu.be/3PeyiU3uWJ8 (Use HN upvote button to promote democratic discussion) Edit: dude, why oh why you, changed your comment just as we are heading down the YT rabbit hole, why?
    - jonstokes 9y ago
      LOL... Because I really was cracking up at the Comic Book Guy thing :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Opt9bJlqg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Opt9bJlqg
- tryingagainbro 9y ago
  >>after a woman complained to Human Resource Did you miss this^^? She complained. Maybe she complained to get back at him but still, she complained. Bill Gates also dated and married a subordinate. Poor woman, where was Gloria Allred to save her...
  - jonstokes 9y ago
    No I didn't miss it. That's what I'm saying -- there has to be something beyond "consensual relationship with subordinate" going on here. The fact that someone complained to HR supports that hypothesis. My point was that sleeping with subordinates is not historically the kind of thing that gets people fired at Google. I make no claim about whether that's good or bad (whether or not that should ever be ok is a different discussion), just an observation that that's the way it has been, which (along with the HR complaint) indicates to me that this wasn't a simple case of Rubin sleeping with a subordinate.
    - tryingagainbro 9y ago
      >>there has to be something beyond "consensual relationship with subordinate" Yeah, he put a knife to her throat, no doubt. (sarcasm, OK?) She complained, said x, y and z and her word is taken at face value today. Plus, simply by dating her, he clearly violated Google's employment policies, probably a firing offense. Do you think that all the actresses that are complaining today were unwilling participants? For a lot of them things didn't work out as planned so whatever happened 20 years ago is now rape or sexual harassment.
      - sctb 9y ago
        Please don't comment like this again, it breaks the guidelines by being uncivil and unsubstantive. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
antoniuschan99 9y ago
Was this the same as Bill and Melinda? But isn't Andy Rubin married? There's two couples who are married (with children) at work and I think they met at work too. It's a nice dynamic... but only because it worked out :).
- jonstokes 9y ago
  Yeah, it was the same with Bill and Melinda from what I recall.
e40 9y ago
It's not clear from the article, but it might be that someone other than the subordinate complained. Perhaps he had given this subordinate preferential treatment. That would be grounds for pushing him out.
dguaraglia 9y ago
Full disclosure: used to work for Alphabet, and while I seem to recall the sexual harassment training on this pretty well, take my word with a huge grain of salt. Google has a pretty open-minded approach about relationships: you won't get fired for starting a relationship with a report/manager, but you are required to disclose it to management and take the appropriate steps to fix the power imbalance. Moving the parties to two different teams is one of the suggested solutions. I could see that being hard to achieve if you are in the board of directors, but it should work for the vast majority of employees. So my guess about this "inappropriate relationship" was that it wasn't reported and the proper actions weren't taken. I hope for everyone involved it was consensual and just an indiscretion, rather than something more perverse being at play.
- agumonkey 9y ago
  Very interesting, especially the fine grained handling of relationships by reorganizing to avoid biased work. You may be right about the real issue here
  - perseusprime11 9y ago
    I am speculating that he may have given her a promotion without disclosing his relationship to HR.
    - dguaraglia 9y ago
      Yeah, that'd definitely be a huge issue. One interesting aspect people are missing in this thread is that the power dynamic goes both ways: a manager could coerce a report into a relationship or a report gets unfair advantage over their peers by exerting influence on their manager. Or both. Not only that, it opens the door to blackmailing. That's why the dynamic is bad and people trying to make a defense of it (I've seen co are misguided or haven't considered all the factors. There's a reason why there's a legal-approved training on this.
    - nappy-doo 9y ago
      no one gives promotions at Google. They go to a review committee who decides if the person is performing above their current level. It is possible he wrote for her promo committee packet, but managers are generally not as important as peers in the promo process.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
ocdtrekkie 9y ago
The Information, who was behind the Andy Rubin story, today came out with this (non-paywalled site on the matter): https://9to5google.com/2017/11/30/google-leadership-misconduct-hostile-internal-climate/ https://9to5google.com/2017/11/30/google-leadership-miscondu...

ronilan 9y ago

A lot of things have been "historically OK" (at Google and elsewhere), but are no longer acceptable in today's society. It is called progress. Reminds me of this: https://youtu.be/GrlEQ15mVPM https://youtu.be/GrlEQ15mVPM

jstewartmobile 9y ago
Not so sure about chalking it up to progress. Looks more like power having its perks to me...
jonstokes 9y ago
Edit: Reading this reply in Comic Book Guy voice and cracking up... :)
- ronilan 9y ago
  Seriously dude, that's how you preach the path of the righteous: https://youtu.be/3PeyiU3uWJ8 https://youtu.be/3PeyiU3uWJ8 (Use HN upvote button to promote democratic discussion) Edit: dude, why oh why you, changed your comment just as we are heading down the YT rabbit hole, why?
  - jonstokes 9y ago
    LOL... Because I really was cracking up at the Comic Book Guy thing :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Opt9bJlqg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Opt9bJlqg
tryingagainbro 9y ago
>>after a woman complained to Human Resource Did you miss this^^? She complained. Maybe she complained to get back at him but still, she complained. Bill Gates also dated and married a subordinate. Poor woman, where was Gloria Allred to save her...
- jonstokes 9y ago
  No I didn't miss it. That's what I'm saying -- there has to be something beyond "consensual relationship with subordinate" going on here. The fact that someone complained to HR supports that hypothesis. My point was that sleeping with subordinates is not historically the kind of thing that gets people fired at Google. I make no claim about whether that's good or bad (whether or not that should ever be ok is a different discussion), just an observation that that's the way it has been, which (along with the HR complaint) indicates to me that this wasn't a simple case of Rubin sleeping with a subordinate.
  - tryingagainbro 9y ago
    >>there has to be something beyond "consensual relationship with subordinate" Yeah, he put a knife to her throat, no doubt. (sarcasm, OK?) She complained, said x, y and z and her word is taken at face value today. Plus, simply by dating her, he clearly violated Google's employment policies, probably a firing offense. Do you think that all the actresses that are complaining today were unwilling participants? For a lot of them things didn't work out as planned so whatever happened 20 years ago is now rape or sexual harassment.
    - sctb 9y ago
      Please don't comment like this again, it breaks the guidelines by being uncivil and unsubstantive. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

antoniuschan99 9y ago

Was this the same as Bill and Melinda? But isn't Andy Rubin married? There's two couples who are married (with children) at work and I think they met at work too. It's a nice dynamic... but only because it worked out :).

jonstokes 9y ago
Yeah, it was the same with Bill and Melinda from what I recall.

e40 9y ago

It's not clear from the article, but it might be that someone other than the subordinate complained. Perhaps he had given this subordinate preferential treatment. That would be grounds for pushing him out.

dguaraglia 9y ago

Full disclosure: used to work for Alphabet, and while I seem to recall the sexual harassment training on this pretty well, take my word with a huge grain of salt. Google has a pretty open-minded approach about relationships: you won't get fired for starting a relationship with a report/manager, but you are required to disclose it to management and take the appropriate steps to fix the power imbalance. Moving the parties to two different teams is one of the suggested solutions. I could see that being hard to achieve if you are in the board of directors, but it should work for the vast majority of employees. So my guess about this "inappropriate relationship" was that it wasn't reported and the proper actions weren't taken. I hope for everyone involved it was consensual and just an indiscretion, rather than something more perverse being at play.

agumonkey 9y ago
Very interesting, especially the fine grained handling of relationships by reorganizing to avoid biased work. You may be right about the real issue here
- perseusprime11 9y ago
  I am speculating that he may have given her a promotion without disclosing his relationship to HR.
  - dguaraglia 9y ago
    Yeah, that'd definitely be a huge issue. One interesting aspect people are missing in this thread is that the power dynamic goes both ways: a manager could coerce a report into a relationship or a report gets unfair advantage over their peers by exerting influence on their manager. Or both. Not only that, it opens the door to blackmailing. That's why the dynamic is bad and people trying to make a defense of it (I've seen co are misguided or haven't considered all the factors. There's a reason why there's a legal-approved training on this.
  - nappy-doo 9y ago
    no one gives promotions at Google. They go to a review committee who decides if the person is performing above their current level. It is possible he wrote for her promo committee packet, but managers are generally not as important as peers in the promo process.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

ocdtrekkie 9y ago

The Information, who was behind the Andy Rubin story, today came out with this (non-paywalled site on the matter): https://9to5google.com/2017/11/30/google-leadership-misconduct-hostile-internal-climate/ https://9to5google.com/2017/11/30/google-leadership-miscondu...