8 ms·

Andy Rubin Takes Leave of Absence Amid Report of ‘Inappropriate Relationship’

71 points by artsandsci 9y ago

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
ocdtrekkie 9y ago
So, this appears to be about having an allegedly consensual relationship with a subordinate. And I get why that's a problem, because of the power dynamic. But I think it's a little funny if this is how he ended up getting pushed out at Google given that Sergey Brin had an affair with a Google X employee while working on Glass and is none the worse for it.
- pwinnski 9y ago
  Indeed. My hypothesis at this point is that there's more to the story, including misbehavior at Essential, and that we'll have to wait some time to learn any details. Even within the current trend of righting wrongs, this seems like an overreaction to what little is known.
- jonstokes 9y ago
  Don't forget that Larry dated Marissa for a long time, and she was his subordinate. And then there's Eric, who was notorious... Anyway, my understanding was that it has historically been OK at Google to date subordinates, so I'm waiting for more to come out because I can't imagine that "he had a consensual relationship with a subordinate" is all that's going on here. But maybe someone who has worked there for a long time can correct me?
  - ronilan 9y ago
    A lot of things have been "historically OK" (at Google and elsewhere), but are no longer acceptable in today's society. It is called progress. Reminds me of this: https://youtu.be/GrlEQ15mVPM https://youtu.be/GrlEQ15mVPM
    - jstewartmobile 9y ago
      Not so sure about chalking it up to progress. Looks more like power having its perks to me...
    - jonstokes 9y ago
      Edit: Reading this reply in Comic Book Guy voice and cracking up... :)
      - ronilan 9y ago
        Seriously dude, that's how you preach the path of the righteous: https://youtu.be/3PeyiU3uWJ8 https://youtu.be/3PeyiU3uWJ8 (Use HN upvote button to promote democratic discussion) Edit: dude, why oh why you, changed your comment just as we are heading down the YT rabbit hole, why?
        jonstokes 9y ago
        LOL... Because I really was cracking up at the Comic Book Guy thing :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Opt9bJlqg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Opt9bJlqg
    - tryingagainbro 9y ago
      >>after a woman complained to Human Resource Did you miss this^^? She complained. Maybe she complained to get back at him but still, she complained. Bill Gates also dated and married a subordinate. Poor woman, where was Gloria Allred to save her...
      - jonstokes 9y ago
        No I didn't miss it. That's what I'm saying -- there has to be something beyond "consensual relationship with subordinate" going on here. The fact that someone complained to HR supports that hypothesis. My point was that sleeping with subordinates is not historically the kind of thing that gets people fired at Google. I make no claim about whether that's good or bad (whether or not that should ever be ok is a different discussion), just an observation that that's the way it has been, which (along with the HR complaint) indicates to me that this wasn't a simple case of Rubin sleeping with a subordinate.
  - antoniuschan99 9y ago
    Was this the same as Bill and Melinda? But isn't Andy Rubin married? There's two couples who are married (with children) at work and I think they met at work too. It's a nice dynamic... but only because it worked out :).
    - jonstokes 9y ago
      Yeah, it was the same with Bill and Melinda from what I recall.
  - e40 9y ago
    It's not clear from the article, but it might be that someone other than the subordinate complained. Perhaps he had given this subordinate preferential treatment. That would be grounds for pushing him out.
  - dguaraglia 9y ago
    Full disclosure: used to work for Alphabet, and while I seem to recall the sexual harassment training on this pretty well, take my word with a huge grain of salt. Google has a pretty open-minded approach about relationships: you won't get fired for starting a relationship with a report/manager, but you are required to disclose it to management and take the appropriate steps to fix the power imbalance. Moving the parties to two different teams is one of the suggested solutions. I could see that being hard to achieve if you are in the board of directors, but it should work for the vast majority of employees. So my guess about this "inappropriate relationship" was that it wasn't reported and the proper actions weren't taken. I hope for everyone involved it was consensual and just an indiscretion, rather than something more perverse being at play.
    - agumonkey 9y ago
      Very interesting, especially the fine grained handling of relationships by reorganizing to avoid biased work. You may be right about the real issue here
      - perseusprime11 9y ago
        I am speculating that he may have given her a promotion without disclosing his relationship to HR.
        dguaraglia 9y ago
        Yeah, that'd definitely be a huge issue. One interesting aspect people are missing in this thread is that the power dynamic goes both ways: a manager could coerce a report into a relationship or a report gets unfair advantage over their peers by exerting influence on their manager. Or both. Not only that, it opens the door to blackmailing. That's why the dynamic is bad and people trying to make a defense of it (I've seen co are misguided or haven't considered all the factors. There's a reason why there's a legal-approved training on this.
        nappy-doo 9y ago
        no one gives promotions at Google. They go to a review committee who decides if the person is performing above their current level. It is possible he wrote for her promo committee packet, but managers are generally not as important as peers in the promo process.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
    The Information, who was behind the Andy Rubin story, today came out with this (non-paywalled site on the matter): https://9to5google.com/2017/11/30/google-leadership-misconduct-hostile-internal-climate/ https://9to5google.com/2017/11/30/google-leadership-miscondu...
- bryanlarsen 9y ago
  Given that the woman complained about the relationship to HR, it may not have been entirely consensual.
  - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
    Possibly. It also could've been consensual (or been perceived as consensual) at the time, and reported as a concern later. The issue with relationships with subordinates is about the power dynamic, it's entirely plausible that both Andy Rubin and the other individual considered it a consensual relationship. The woman might've found out about effects it had on her career at a later date, or even just realized later that what had occurred was inappropriate. Definitely not a lot of information to go on right now, especially considering that the original source of the report is paywalled. (The Information does some great work, I'd actually be really tempted to buy in if not for the $400 price tag.)
  - picodguyo 9y ago
    It wasn't clear to me from the article whether the woman who complained was also the one in the relationship: "Google reportedly launched an internal investigation into Rubin’s relationship with a subordinate after _a woman_ complained to Human Resources. The woman who filed a complaint to HR is said to have worked on the Android team, which Rubin ran. There are no details in the report on the nature of the woman’s relationship with Rubin. "
    - microtherion 9y ago
      Could be somebody who WASN'T dating Rubin, perceiving favoritism in the treatment of the person who WAS dating him. That's one of the problems that remains, even if a boss-subordinate relationship as such is completely consensual.
  - jstewartmobile 9y ago
    Not _the_ woman. _A_ woman. Could have been another subordinate who was mad about being upstaged by the boss's girlfriend...
therealmarv 9y ago
In the EU (at least in Germany) this would be illegal in a normal company because it is against the law and/of personal freedom! Why are this personal rules allowed in a company in the USA? Nobody should say to me that's ok or not ok to get in a relationship with one of my coworker and I have not to report it to my supervisor!
- danso 9y ago
  Sorry, but it seems we know too little at this point to already turn this into another debate about the puritanical oppression of American capitalism vs. the free love ethic elsewhere in the world. What has been reported thus far is this: > Google reportedly launched an internal investigation into Rubin’s relationship with a subordinate after a woman complained to Human Resources. The woman who filed a complaint to HR is said to have worked on the Android team, which Rubin ran. There are no details in the report on the nature of the woman’s relationship with Rubin. Google has a policy that does not allow relationships between supervisors and subordinates on the same team. Until we get more information and confirmation that the complaint involves a consensual, non-entangling relationship between Rubin and a subordinate and that maybe they're even halfway into planning their wedding -- and yet Rubin is still going to be given an ax, then maybe we can go into the culture wars. BTW, having a relationship with your coworker is not the same as having a relationship with your subordinate, though the latter is a subclass of the former.
  - therealmarv 9y ago
    ok, thanks for clarification.
- dpark 9y ago
  Please provide some evidence that sexual/romantic relationships with subordinates is protected behavior in Germany. I cannot imagine that Germany has enshrined in law the right to have sex with subordinates.
  - therealmarv 9y ago
    just search for "Persönlichkeitsrecht" related to work. One example: http://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2013-02/liebe-am-arbeitsplatz http://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2013-02/liebe-am-arbeitsplatz
bitL 9y ago
After all the recent high-profile cases the outcome is going to be brutal - zero trust between genders, open door policy for any 1:1 meetings, recorded if law allows; minimal and legally pre-approved communication, covering one's back in all cases, reduced VC spending in opposite gender-led companies, making work a hell where only lawyers would thrive.
- DonHopkins 9y ago
  And all of the blame for this inconvenient atmosphere lies squarely with the harassers. So direct it at them, not the victims. As long as Trump and Moore and everyone on down are immune to these accusations, everybody else is just going to have to suck it up.
  - bitL 9y ago
    It doesn't change the outcome - a few that poison the well for everyone. Regardless of where the blame lies, everybody would suffer. In Andy's case it's not even clear if he indeed was a harasser or just played favorites/had a perceived bias towards his subordinate girlfriend that was not liked by other women in his team.
    - harryh 9y ago
      Both of the cases you describe in your "not even clear" are problems. If it was either of those things then it would demonstrate that Rubin was acting irresponsibly as a leader.
      - bitL 9y ago
        Not sure if they deserve the same treatment as if he were a harasser though; it's a disproportional justice. I hate when bosses play favorites, but don't demand them to be kicked out of the company for that, as everyone is biased towards people they like, and many people make a career out of "hacking" their bosses.
  - coldtea 9y ago
throwaway6497 9y ago
The title is click-baity. He took leave of absence from the current company Essential because reports of an in-appropriate relationship at Google surfaced publicly? Leaders and board at Essential seem to be aware of his relationship at Google prior to the press reports. So, it is not clear why is this suddenly a big deal and requires leave of absence. Are they embarrassed that they got publicly caught and doing this for optics? What are they embarrassed about?
- bitL 9y ago
  This could entirely be a CYA strategy of the board as the phone seems to be a flop and somebody has to be made accountable for that - here Andy might be a welcome scapegoat and distraction for not very smart investors.
Parcissons 9y ago
All over history certain interest groups have tried to blackmail there way to power, by pushing moral codes and declaring the current power and ressource holders morally bankrupt and depraved. SV with its bunch of near autistic workaholics is a funny target for this, because you can see the repeated attempts to get to the source of power ending with just another storie about a traditional "power" group abusing, venture captial, lawyers and the likes. I cant wait for the first snowflakes feeling harassed by Neural Networks. A unfeeling statistics sheet is out to get you? Are you sure?

71 points by artsandsci 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

So, this appears to be about having an allegedly consensual relationship with a subordinate. And I get why that's a problem, because of the power dynamic. But I think it's a little funny if this is how he ended up getting pushed out at Google given that Sergey Brin had an affair with a Google X employee while working on Glass and is none the worse for it.

pwinnski 9y ago
Indeed. My hypothesis at this point is that there's more to the story, including misbehavior at Essential, and that we'll have to wait some time to learn any details. Even within the current trend of righting wrongs, this seems like an overreaction to what little is known.
jonstokes 9y ago
Don't forget that Larry dated Marissa for a long time, and she was his subordinate. And then there's Eric, who was notorious... Anyway, my understanding was that it has historically been OK at Google to date subordinates, so I'm waiting for more to come out because I can't imagine that "he had a consensual relationship with a subordinate" is all that's going on here. But maybe someone who has worked there for a long time can correct me?
- ronilan 9y ago
  A lot of things have been "historically OK" (at Google and elsewhere), but are no longer acceptable in today's society. It is called progress. Reminds me of this: https://youtu.be/GrlEQ15mVPM https://youtu.be/GrlEQ15mVPM
  - jstewartmobile 9y ago
    Not so sure about chalking it up to progress. Looks more like power having its perks to me...
  - jonstokes 9y ago
    Edit: Reading this reply in Comic Book Guy voice and cracking up... :)
    - ronilan 9y ago
      Seriously dude, that's how you preach the path of the righteous: https://youtu.be/3PeyiU3uWJ8 https://youtu.be/3PeyiU3uWJ8 (Use HN upvote button to promote democratic discussion) Edit: dude, why oh why you, changed your comment just as we are heading down the YT rabbit hole, why?
      - jonstokes 9y ago
        LOL... Because I really was cracking up at the Comic Book Guy thing :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Opt9bJlqg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Opt9bJlqg
  - tryingagainbro 9y ago
    >>after a woman complained to Human Resource Did you miss this^^? She complained. Maybe she complained to get back at him but still, she complained. Bill Gates also dated and married a subordinate. Poor woman, where was Gloria Allred to save her...
    - jonstokes 9y ago
      No I didn't miss it. That's what I'm saying -- there has to be something beyond "consensual relationship with subordinate" going on here. The fact that someone complained to HR supports that hypothesis. My point was that sleeping with subordinates is not historically the kind of thing that gets people fired at Google. I make no claim about whether that's good or bad (whether or not that should ever be ok is a different discussion), just an observation that that's the way it has been, which (along with the HR complaint) indicates to me that this wasn't a simple case of Rubin sleeping with a subordinate.
- antoniuschan99 9y ago
  Was this the same as Bill and Melinda? But isn't Andy Rubin married? There's two couples who are married (with children) at work and I think they met at work too. It's a nice dynamic... but only because it worked out :).
  - jonstokes 9y ago
    Yeah, it was the same with Bill and Melinda from what I recall.
- e40 9y ago
  It's not clear from the article, but it might be that someone other than the subordinate complained. Perhaps he had given this subordinate preferential treatment. That would be grounds for pushing him out.
- dguaraglia 9y ago
  Full disclosure: used to work for Alphabet, and while I seem to recall the sexual harassment training on this pretty well, take my word with a huge grain of salt. Google has a pretty open-minded approach about relationships: you won't get fired for starting a relationship with a report/manager, but you are required to disclose it to management and take the appropriate steps to fix the power imbalance. Moving the parties to two different teams is one of the suggested solutions. I could see that being hard to achieve if you are in the board of directors, but it should work for the vast majority of employees. So my guess about this "inappropriate relationship" was that it wasn't reported and the proper actions weren't taken. I hope for everyone involved it was consensual and just an indiscretion, rather than something more perverse being at play.
  - agumonkey 9y ago
    Very interesting, especially the fine grained handling of relationships by reorganizing to avoid biased work. You may be right about the real issue here
    - perseusprime11 9y ago
      I am speculating that he may have given her a promotion without disclosing his relationship to HR.
      - dguaraglia 9y ago
        Yeah, that'd definitely be a huge issue. One interesting aspect people are missing in this thread is that the power dynamic goes both ways: a manager could coerce a report into a relationship or a report gets unfair advantage over their peers by exerting influence on their manager. Or both. Not only that, it opens the door to blackmailing. That's why the dynamic is bad and people trying to make a defense of it (I've seen co are misguided or haven't considered all the factors. There's a reason why there's a legal-approved training on this.
      - nappy-doo 9y ago
        no one gives promotions at Google. They go to a review committee who decides if the person is performing above their current level. It is possible he wrote for her promo committee packet, but managers are generally not as important as peers in the promo process.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  The Information, who was behind the Andy Rubin story, today came out with this (non-paywalled site on the matter): https://9to5google.com/2017/11/30/google-leadership-misconduct-hostile-internal-climate/ https://9to5google.com/2017/11/30/google-leadership-miscondu...
bryanlarsen 9y ago
Given that the woman complained about the relationship to HR, it may not have been entirely consensual.
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  Possibly. It also could've been consensual (or been perceived as consensual) at the time, and reported as a concern later. The issue with relationships with subordinates is about the power dynamic, it's entirely plausible that both Andy Rubin and the other individual considered it a consensual relationship. The woman might've found out about effects it had on her career at a later date, or even just realized later that what had occurred was inappropriate. Definitely not a lot of information to go on right now, especially considering that the original source of the report is paywalled. (The Information does some great work, I'd actually be really tempted to buy in if not for the $400 price tag.)
- picodguyo 9y ago
  It wasn't clear to me from the article whether the woman who complained was also the one in the relationship: "Google reportedly launched an internal investigation into Rubin’s relationship with a subordinate after _a woman_ complained to Human Resources. The woman who filed a complaint to HR is said to have worked on the Android team, which Rubin ran. There are no details in the report on the nature of the woman’s relationship with Rubin. "
  - microtherion 9y ago
    Could be somebody who WASN'T dating Rubin, perceiving favoritism in the treatment of the person who WAS dating him. That's one of the problems that remains, even if a boss-subordinate relationship as such is completely consensual.
- jstewartmobile 9y ago
  Not _the_ woman. _A_ woman. Could have been another subordinate who was mad about being upstaged by the boss's girlfriend...

therealmarv 9y ago

In the EU (at least in Germany) this would be illegal in a normal company because it is against the law and/of personal freedom! Why are this personal rules allowed in a company in the USA? Nobody should say to me that's ok or not ok to get in a relationship with one of my coworker and I have not to report it to my supervisor!

danso 9y ago
Sorry, but it seems we know too little at this point to already turn this into another debate about the puritanical oppression of American capitalism vs. the free love ethic elsewhere in the world. What has been reported thus far is this: > Google reportedly launched an internal investigation into Rubin’s relationship with a subordinate after a woman complained to Human Resources. The woman who filed a complaint to HR is said to have worked on the Android team, which Rubin ran. There are no details in the report on the nature of the woman’s relationship with Rubin. Google has a policy that does not allow relationships between supervisors and subordinates on the same team. Until we get more information and confirmation that the complaint involves a consensual, non-entangling relationship between Rubin and a subordinate and that maybe they're even halfway into planning their wedding -- and yet Rubin is still going to be given an ax, then maybe we can go into the culture wars. BTW, having a relationship with your coworker is not the same as having a relationship with your subordinate, though the latter is a subclass of the former.
- therealmarv 9y ago
  ok, thanks for clarification.
dpark 9y ago
Please provide some evidence that sexual/romantic relationships with subordinates is protected behavior in Germany. I cannot imagine that Germany has enshrined in law the right to have sex with subordinates.
- therealmarv 9y ago
  just search for "Persönlichkeitsrecht" related to work. One example: http://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2013-02/liebe-am-arbeitsplatz http://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2013-02/liebe-am-arbeitsplatz

bitL 9y ago

After all the recent high-profile cases the outcome is going to be brutal - zero trust between genders, open door policy for any 1:1 meetings, recorded if law allows; minimal and legally pre-approved communication, covering one's back in all cases, reduced VC spending in opposite gender-led companies, making work a hell where only lawyers would thrive.

DonHopkins 9y ago
And all of the blame for this inconvenient atmosphere lies squarely with the harassers. So direct it at them, not the victims. As long as Trump and Moore and everyone on down are immune to these accusations, everybody else is just going to have to suck it up.
- bitL 9y ago
  It doesn't change the outcome - a few that poison the well for everyone. Regardless of where the blame lies, everybody would suffer. In Andy's case it's not even clear if he indeed was a harasser or just played favorites/had a perceived bias towards his subordinate girlfriend that was not liked by other women in his team.
  - harryh 9y ago
    Both of the cases you describe in your "not even clear" are problems. If it was either of those things then it would demonstrate that Rubin was acting irresponsibly as a leader.
    - bitL 9y ago
      Not sure if they deserve the same treatment as if he were a harasser though; it's a disproportional justice. I hate when bosses play favorites, but don't demand them to be kicked out of the company for that, as everyone is biased towards people they like, and many people make a career out of "hacking" their bosses.
- coldtea 9y ago

throwaway6497 9y ago

The title is click-baity. He took leave of absence from the current company Essential because reports of an in-appropriate relationship at Google surfaced publicly? Leaders and board at Essential seem to be aware of his relationship at Google prior to the press reports. So, it is not clear why is this suddenly a big deal and requires leave of absence. Are they embarrassed that they got publicly caught and doing this for optics? What are they embarrassed about?

bitL 9y ago
This could entirely be a CYA strategy of the board as the phone seems to be a flop and somebody has to be made accountable for that - here Andy might be a welcome scapegoat and distraction for not very smart investors.

Parcissons 9y ago

All over history certain interest groups have tried to blackmail there way to power, by pushing moral codes and declaring the current power and ressource holders morally bankrupt and depraved. SV with its bunch of near autistic workaholics is a funny target for this, because you can see the repeated attempts to get to the source of power ending with just another storie about a traditional "power" group abusing, venture captial, lawyers and the likes. I cant wait for the first snowflakes feeling harassed by Neural Networks. A unfeeling statistics sheet is out to get you? Are you sure?