3 ms·

This case is interesting to me, because I've always been under impression that in USA you can hire and fire whomever you want. Which is not the case here in Eur

by jan_g 16y ago

This case is interesting to me, because I've always been under impression that in USA you can hire and fire whomever you want. Which is not the case here in Europe, where workers are protected like endangered species if they're on permanent contract.

whyenot 16y ago
At will employment[1] gives you a lot of freedom when it comes to hiring and firing, but, there are some restrictions[2]. For example, you can't fire all the women in your organization just because you don't want any women working for you. In practice, it's usually not difficult to come up with a legitimate reason to fire someone. For example, there is a whole industry of computer forensics consults who for a relatively small fee will "probe" (search the target's work computer and network logs for things that shouldn't be there) an employee to come up with a legitimate reason for firing them. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class
gojomo 16y ago
In the USA, 'permanent' employees not covered by a union agreement are generally 'at will', which means the employment can begin and end for any reason, or no reason at all -- except for discriminatory reasons, based on certain characteristics listed in various laws. The factors that can't be considered are 'protected classes': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class So when a decision based on one of these classes could be alleged, employment changes/terminations can become riskier. There's no right to continuing employment, or direct severance/buyout payments, as seems to be the case in some European jurisdictions. But when more of your employees wind up collecting state-administered unemployment compensation, your payments into that program escalate. (Anyone not fired for specific misdeeds is eligible for unemployment compensation, for a limited period, while actively seeking other work.)
GBond 16y ago
Generally speaking, U.S. States' regulations on how corporations can fire/hire employees favor the Corps. However, the U.S. is also highly litigious in the civil courts. If you feel you've been wronged, there are a multitude of ways to bring up a lawsuit... and plenty of lawyers who would be willing to take your case (especially with "tens of millions of dollars" of denied stock options on the line).
yardie 16y ago
It's circumstantial really. If your a small company than hiring and firing makes a lot of sense. Plus you don't have a lot of assets so you are a small target. Big companies on the other hand don't have that luxury. You don't get fired individually at a large company they wait until layoffs. Reason is that if a person is fired than you are a huge, rich target for a lawsuit. Each and every one of your employees is now a liability. Someone say an off-color joke or do something that can be even remotely considered discriminatory and you're on the hook. I've had colleagues get rightly fired for doing incredibly stupid things. They lawyer up and bring a suit about some manager being racist, sexist, or religious insensitivity. They know the company would rather pay a few thousand dollars than have to pay $500/hr for a lawyer. If your company is viewed as discriminatory towards employees (doesn't matter what the facts are) you'll be paying more money to recover your reputation. So severance and settlements are much cheaper to the bottom line then trying to convince people of your story.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
moomba 16y ago
I'm glad Google had the balls to fire this guy. Judging from the article, I was working with someone similar to this guy. He had a Phd and had been in the business many years. His code was terrible and he acted very childish. The company I was working for at the time did not fire him. He did subsequently leave which was a relief.
- dws 16y ago
  Reid was no coding slouch. He won the 1982 Grace Murray Hopper award for Scribe. http://awards.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=5356574&srt=all&aw=145&ao=GMHOPPER&yr=1982 http://awards.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=5356574&srt=all&#3...

by jan_g 16y ago

whyenot 16y ago

At will employment[1] gives you a lot of freedom when it comes to hiring and firing, but, there are some restrictions[2]. For example, you can't fire all the women in your organization just because you don't want any women working for you. In practice, it's usually not difficult to come up with a legitimate reason to fire someone. For example, there is a whole industry of computer forensics consults who for a relatively small fee will "probe" (search the target's work computer and network logs for things that shouldn't be there) an employee to come up with a legitimate reason for firing them. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class

gojomo 16y ago

In the USA, 'permanent' employees not covered by a union agreement are generally 'at will', which means the employment can begin and end for any reason, or no reason at all -- except for discriminatory reasons, based on certain characteristics listed in various laws. The factors that can't be considered are 'protected classes': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class So when a decision based on one of these classes could be alleged, employment changes/terminations can become riskier. There's no right to continuing employment, or direct severance/buyout payments, as seems to be the case in some European jurisdictions. But when more of your employees wind up collecting state-administered unemployment compensation, your payments into that program escalate. (Anyone not fired for specific misdeeds is eligible for unemployment compensation, for a limited period, while actively seeking other work.)

GBond 16y ago

Generally speaking, U.S. States' regulations on how corporations can fire/hire employees favor the Corps. However, the U.S. is also highly litigious in the civil courts. If you feel you've been wronged, there are a multitude of ways to bring up a lawsuit... and plenty of lawyers who would be willing to take your case (especially with "tens of millions of dollars" of denied stock options on the line).

yardie 16y ago

It's circumstantial really. If your a small company than hiring and firing makes a lot of sense. Plus you don't have a lot of assets so you are a small target. Big companies on the other hand don't have that luxury. You don't get fired individually at a large company they wait until layoffs. Reason is that if a person is fired than you are a huge, rich target for a lawsuit. Each and every one of your employees is now a liability. Someone say an off-color joke or do something that can be even remotely considered discriminatory and you're on the hook. I've had colleagues get rightly fired for doing incredibly stupid things. They lawyer up and bring a suit about some manager being racist, sexist, or religious insensitivity. They know the company would rather pay a few thousand dollars than have to pay $500/hr for a lawyer. If your company is viewed as discriminatory towards employees (doesn't matter what the facts are) you'll be paying more money to recover your reputation. So severance and settlements are much cheaper to the bottom line then trying to convince people of your story.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

moomba 16y ago

I'm glad Google had the balls to fire this guy. Judging from the article, I was working with someone similar to this guy. He had a Phd and had been in the business many years. His code was terrible and he acted very childish. The company I was working for at the time did not fire him. He did subsequently leave which was a relief.

dws 16y ago
Reid was no coding slouch. He won the 1982 Grace Murray Hopper award for Scribe. http://awards.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=5356574&srt=all&aw=145&ao=GMHOPPER&yr=1982 http://awards.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=5356574&srt=all&#3...