6 ms·

>No one likes to talk about that though, they like to demonize bitcoin which actually does something gold could never do. Just playing devils advocate, but you

>No one likes to talk about that though, they like to demonize bitcoin which actually does something gold could never do. Just playing devils advocate, but you can't replicate/duplicate gold. On the other hand I could create 21M cryptocoins on a blockchain (calling them Bitcoin2 or even just Bitcoin if it pleases). I can make them function identically, similarly or more efficiently than Bitcoin. I can create a new blockchain (network) or put these coins on an existing blockchain (say the Ethereum blockchain). How much would you pay for all 21M Bitcoin? How much would you pay me to create you 21M Bitcoin2 and transfer 100% of them to you? You say Bitcoin is $10k because ordinary people understand why a decentralized asset is the ultimate safe haven. If that is your premises it makes little sense to compare Bitcoin to gold, compare Bitcoin to other currencies. Why does Litecoin = $100 and Ether = $500? Bitcoin may do something gold could never do, obviously, but can it do anything any other cryptocoin/token can't? The real irony is cryptocoins and blockchains couldn't even exist without gold, because it is a necessary component in the machines that created bitcoin, that hosts blockchain nodes, mines, hosts wallets and facilitates transactions.

RexetBlell 9y ago
Why can't you replicate gold? What is gold? It's some elementary particles (like quarks) arranged in a certain way that we all agree are valuable. We could easily agree that some other arrangement is valuable (such as Aluminum).
- bezieio 9y ago
  Here's an interesting presentation by the Winklevoss twins that steps through the elements and narrows down which could be used as currency and why: https://www.slideshare.net/winklevosscap/money-is-broken-its-future-is-not?ref=https://winklevosscapital.com/money-is-broken-but-its-future-is-not/ https://www.slideshare.net/winklevosscap/money-is-broken-its... (Slides 7-17)
- BorisMelnik 9y ago
  good point...also what happens if we start digging on Mars, or some other planet and find 1000 tons of gold?
  - sobani 9y ago
    187,200 tonnes of gold has already been mined. So another 1000 is going to be a blip. At 1M it could become interesting though :) https://www.gold.org/about-gold/gold-supply/gold-mining/how-much-gold-has-been-mined https://www.gold.org/about-gold/gold-supply/gold-mining/how-...
  - Fjolsvith 9y ago
    I am certain that asteroid mining will happen sooner and be far more profitable.
drcross 9y ago
>On the other hand I could create 21M cryptocoins on a blockchain (calling them Bitcoin2 or even just Bitcoin if it pleases). I can make them function identically, similarly or more efficiently than Bitcoin. I can create a new blockchain (network) or put these coins on an existing blockchain (say the Ethereum blockchain). How much would you pay for all 21M Bitcoin? How much would you pay me to create you 21M Bitcoin2 and transfer 100% of them to you? Econ 101: The price of a currency is based on people's trust in that currency. >The real irony is cryptocoins and blockchains couldn't even exist without gold, because it is a necessary component in the machines that created bitcoin, that hosts blockchain nodes, mines, hosts wallets and facilitates transactions. That's not irony. Thats a happy coincidence.
- will_brown 9y ago
  >Econ 101: The price of a currency is based on people's trust in that currency. That is the beauty of blockchain right? Its trustless! I'll create 21M of Bitcoin2 on the Ethereum blockchain and send you the smart contract address you can verify on etherscan and boom there is no trust needed. Edit: As to Irony, OP could have used anything to justify the value of Bitcoin, it is ironic he would select Gold and say it has no intrinsic value other than looking good as jewelry, when it is a intrinsic component to the Bitcoin ecosystem. Notwithstanding, I don't think its a coincidence OP compared Bitcoins value to gold.
  - SilasX 9y ago
    The OP meant "trust that it will continue to hold value", not (merely) "trust that transactions happen as intended". The blockchain crypto-magic only ensures the latter.
- ErikAugust 9y ago
  Right, it's not irony. All things couldn't exist without elements, like gold. Truisms aren't ironic.
- lokedhs 9y ago
  "Econ 101: The price of a currency is based on people's trust in that currency." Right, but how many people really trust Bitcoin? And by trust, I mean trust that it will retain its value for the foreseeable future. I have trust that the Euro will retain its value, so I feel confident pricing my product and services using it. On the other hand you'd be crazy to price anything in Bitcoin. No one has trust in Bitcoin as a currency. Some people have some degree of trust in it as an investment vehicle, which is fine. That doesn't make Bitcoin a currency any more than gold is.
ErikAugust 9y ago
You say 21M "cryptocoins" but you couldn't, however, create 21M BTC arbitrarily. As long as that number stays the same (it isn't completely immutable) then BTC has real scarcity - making it a store of value, like gold. Throw in some additional properties that BTC has that gold does not, and an argument can be made that BTC is at least a decent value store. Even at $100,000/BTC, Bitcoin would still have a ~1/5th of the market cap of all gold mined. And in a truly universal sense - gold is made by stars. There are 100 billion stars. There's only one Satoshi in the known universe ;)
- empath75 9y ago
  But there have been multiple bitcoin forks— bitcoin cash essentially doubled the amount of bitcoins in circulation.
  - ErikAugust 9y ago
    Bitcoin Cash is BCH. Bitcoin is BTC. There will only be 21M BTC. As far as I know, there will also be 21M BCH. But BCH != BTC.
  - mrhappyunhappy 9y ago
    Only if people use it.
  - keymone 9y ago
    Good luck buying some BCH and spending them as BTC.
- bb88 9y ago
  What exactly is a BTC? BTC is man made, and depends upon computers and software. And the people who control the software can change their minds, if they so choose. So what a BTC is now, may not be what it is later, including its scarcity. See also the ETH and BTC forks. Gold on the other hand exists naturally in nature, and doesn't change based upon someone else's whim. So no, BTC is not like gold.
  - 9y ago
dajohnson89 9y ago
the decentralization of btc (# of miners and holders) is hard to beat...
keymone 9y ago
For all intents and purposes finding a large deposit of gold is the same as duplicating bitcoin. Except the former can happen easily and the latter requires some immense investments to achieve.
koonsolo 9y ago
> On the other hand I could create 21M cryptocoins on a blockchain (calling them Bitcoin2 or even just Bitcoin if it pleases). I can make them function identically, similarly or more efficiently than Bitcoin. You can do the same thing with Facebook or Twitter, but the value is not in the code or functionality, it really is in the network of people using it.

RexetBlell 9y ago

Why can't you replicate gold? What is gold? It's some elementary particles (like quarks) arranged in a certain way that we all agree are valuable. We could easily agree that some other arrangement is valuable (such as Aluminum).

bezieio 9y ago
Here's an interesting presentation by the Winklevoss twins that steps through the elements and narrows down which could be used as currency and why: https://www.slideshare.net/winklevosscap/money-is-broken-its-future-is-not?ref=https://winklevosscapital.com/money-is-broken-but-its-future-is-not/ https://www.slideshare.net/winklevosscap/money-is-broken-its... (Slides 7-17)
BorisMelnik 9y ago
good point...also what happens if we start digging on Mars, or some other planet and find 1000 tons of gold?
- sobani 9y ago
  187,200 tonnes of gold has already been mined. So another 1000 is going to be a blip. At 1M it could become interesting though :) https://www.gold.org/about-gold/gold-supply/gold-mining/how-much-gold-has-been-mined https://www.gold.org/about-gold/gold-supply/gold-mining/how-...
- Fjolsvith 9y ago
  I am certain that asteroid mining will happen sooner and be far more profitable.

drcross 9y ago

>On the other hand I could create 21M cryptocoins on a blockchain (calling them Bitcoin2 or even just Bitcoin if it pleases). I can make them function identically, similarly or more efficiently than Bitcoin. I can create a new blockchain (network) or put these coins on an existing blockchain (say the Ethereum blockchain). How much would you pay for all 21M Bitcoin? How much would you pay me to create you 21M Bitcoin2 and transfer 100% of them to you? Econ 101: The price of a currency is based on people's trust in that currency. >The real irony is cryptocoins and blockchains couldn't even exist without gold, because it is a necessary component in the machines that created bitcoin, that hosts blockchain nodes, mines, hosts wallets and facilitates transactions. That's not irony. Thats a happy coincidence.

will_brown 9y ago
>Econ 101: The price of a currency is based on people's trust in that currency. That is the beauty of blockchain right? Its trustless! I'll create 21M of Bitcoin2 on the Ethereum blockchain and send you the smart contract address you can verify on etherscan and boom there is no trust needed. Edit: As to Irony, OP could have used anything to justify the value of Bitcoin, it is ironic he would select Gold and say it has no intrinsic value other than looking good as jewelry, when it is a intrinsic component to the Bitcoin ecosystem. Notwithstanding, I don't think its a coincidence OP compared Bitcoins value to gold.
- SilasX 9y ago
  The OP meant "trust that it will continue to hold value", not (merely) "trust that transactions happen as intended". The blockchain crypto-magic only ensures the latter.
ErikAugust 9y ago
Right, it's not irony. All things couldn't exist without elements, like gold. Truisms aren't ironic.
lokedhs 9y ago
"Econ 101: The price of a currency is based on people's trust in that currency." Right, but how many people really trust Bitcoin? And by trust, I mean trust that it will retain its value for the foreseeable future. I have trust that the Euro will retain its value, so I feel confident pricing my product and services using it. On the other hand you'd be crazy to price anything in Bitcoin. No one has trust in Bitcoin as a currency. Some people have some degree of trust in it as an investment vehicle, which is fine. That doesn't make Bitcoin a currency any more than gold is.

ErikAugust 9y ago

You say 21M "cryptocoins" but you couldn't, however, create 21M BTC arbitrarily. As long as that number stays the same (it isn't completely immutable) then BTC has real scarcity - making it a store of value, like gold. Throw in some additional properties that BTC has that gold does not, and an argument can be made that BTC is at least a decent value store. Even at $100,000/BTC, Bitcoin would still have a ~1/5th of the market cap of all gold mined. And in a truly universal sense - gold is made by stars. There are 100 billion stars. There's only one Satoshi in the known universe ;)

empath75 9y ago
But there have been multiple bitcoin forks— bitcoin cash essentially doubled the amount of bitcoins in circulation.
- ErikAugust 9y ago
  Bitcoin Cash is BCH. Bitcoin is BTC. There will only be 21M BTC. As far as I know, there will also be 21M BCH. But BCH != BTC.
- mrhappyunhappy 9y ago
  Only if people use it.
- keymone 9y ago
  Good luck buying some BCH and spending them as BTC.
bb88 9y ago
What exactly is a BTC? BTC is man made, and depends upon computers and software. And the people who control the software can change their minds, if they so choose. So what a BTC is now, may not be what it is later, including its scarcity. See also the ETH and BTC forks. Gold on the other hand exists naturally in nature, and doesn't change based upon someone else's whim. So no, BTC is not like gold.
- 9y ago

dajohnson89 9y ago

the decentralization of btc (# of miners and holders) is hard to beat...

keymone 9y ago

For all intents and purposes finding a large deposit of gold is the same as duplicating bitcoin. Except the former can happen easily and the latter requires some immense investments to achieve.

koonsolo 9y ago

> On the other hand I could create 21M cryptocoins on a blockchain (calling them Bitcoin2 or even just Bitcoin if it pleases). I can make them function identically, similarly or more efficiently than Bitcoin. You can do the same thing with Facebook or Twitter, but the value is not in the code or functionality, it really is in the network of people using it.