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In other words, I should come into work completely drenched in sweat? In many parts of the USA, it is very humid and temperatures can easily reach 90 and above.

In other words, I should come into work completely drenched in sweat? In many parts of the USA, it is very humid and temperatures can easily reach 90 and above. How do you expect people to bike in such conditions? In addition, many people commute long distances to work, which may take up to an hour just by car. Bikes are great, but not very practical.

bitboxer 16y ago
I knew a guy who biked 50 Miles to work and showered at work. Everything is doable :) . A few friends of me bike in spain during the summer. You see, it can be done. All that's needed is a small shower at work and you are even fresher than by driving with your car. And sweating in the rush hour. If you drive more than 20 Miles you can't go by bike, yes, but you can drive shopping or to your friend by bike. Try to use it to go to the nearest pub on weekends. Just try it :) .
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
davidu 16y ago
It gets humid in Europe, too. They survive.
- masklinn 16y ago
  Most of Europe is far drier than the US. I don't know of any place in Europe which would be similar to Japan or Florida (consistent high heat and very high humidity during months on end in Summer), though they might very well exist.
  - delackner 16y ago
    What's your point exactly? I bicycle to work in the heat and humidity you are describing, every day. As someone else said, if you just cruise at a conservative pace, you don't even sweat very much.
    - masklinn 16y ago
      > What's your point exactly? That davidu is not exactly fair in his declaration. > As someone else said, if you just cruise at a conservative pace, you don't even sweat very much. I'm the one who said that...
  - baxter 16y ago
    Europe: http://www.intellicast.com/Global/Humidity.aspx?region=europ http://www.intellicast.com/Global/Humidity.aspx?region=europ USA: http://www.intellicast.com/Global/Humidity.aspx?region=namer http://www.intellicast.com/Global/Humidity.aspx?region=namer
    - Locke1689 16y ago
      Wow, that's the most I've ever seen anyone upvoted for completely inaccurate and misrepresented information. First, that's a real time view of each of the two regions. You don't think that the values may have been different during the day for Europe and the night for the US? More than that, you can't establish a viable trend from a single data point. Even if you did have the average high summer humidity index for Europe and the US (personally, after having lived in the swamp that is Maryland & Virginia, I'd take a look at them), you still need to overlay the temperature index. 100 relative humidity in Oslo doesn't mean a whole lot when it's a balmy 21C, right?
      - masklinn 16y ago
        Thank you for managing to express what I couldn't put into words. You have my gratitude.
      - baxter 16y ago
        I completely agree. I posted quickly before realising these weren't daily averages (and even then, that wouldn't necessarily prove anything). I should have modified the link when I realised my mistake but unfortunately I was busy.
ugh 16y ago
Bikes are great, but not very practical … if the infrastructure isn’t there. You know, city planning and stuff. I think the goal is not to get people to drive 50 miles to work, the goal is to make it possible for them to live so close to work (or appropriate public transport infrastructure) that they can bike there (or use public transport). You are right, bikes wouldn’t work in every case but sometimes they can replace cars just fine.
- bitboxer 16y ago
  Same can be said about cars :) .
  - philwelch 16y ago
    The United States is a nationwide experiment in designing car-friendly infrastructure, and it's a complete disaster. No matter how many lanes the freeways have they're still stop-and-go at rush hour.
- JohnFritzen 16y ago
  Bikes already have the infrastructure, they are called "roads".
  - pjscott 16y ago
    Roads would be great if it weren't for all the cars on them. Around here, if you're not a car, the roads aren't a safe place for you to be, ever.
  - ugh 16y ago
    It’s mot as simple as that. It’s also not as simple as just adding some bike lines. The city for example needs to be fairly compact to be bike friendly — which means sprawl should be avoided. And sprawl is something you can’t just remove once it’s there. You also want to make sure that there are several big supermarkets at one end of the city and nothing much elsewhere. And so on. Those are all tricky problems.
masklinn 16y ago
> In other words, I should come into work completely drenched in sweat? With enough training (build up the habit) and if you don't exert yourself too much (it's not like you have to go 20mph all the way), you shouldn't sweat too much. Add in a pair of showers on work site and you're golden. > In addition, many people commute long distances to work, which may take up to an hour just by car. That's an issue of brain-dead urban planning and stupid personal housing considerations, not of bikes. > Bikes are great, but not very practical. The article, and all of Amsterdam or Münster, already prove you wrong. Why do you make declamations which are already disproven before they even get out your mouth?
- organicgrant 16y ago
  If you choose to live 50+ miles from work and commute everyday...you're making a compromise for a reason (spouse, slow real estate market, etc). But likely...you're doing it wrong. I am seeing an emergence of physically aware programmers who realize sitting in a chair all day isn't an healthy environment. Biking to and from work gives some great exercise and time to clear your head. pg gets ideas in the shower. I get them cruising on the bike. Same effect.
  - organicgrant 16y ago
    OMG, there's another trending topic right now "Exercise Boosts Your Brain - Here's How" http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1580236 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1580236 I believe that post will also feed hungry trolls
  - Locke1689 16y ago
    Fine but some of you biking zealots (bikees? bikees) need to realize that some people can't or don't want to ride a bike to work. The article wasn't completely about bikes, you're forgetting that there are options other than cars and bikes. The task for new developments is to build up a good system of public transportation. I think we should see that long before we see everyone biking to work. (Btw I actually run to work.)
- bobbyflanders 16y ago
derefr 16y ago
Perhaps people would be better off not living in these places where it's impossible to survive without a climate-controlled bubble-environment :)
Niten 16y ago
I often bike to work, which for me is about 26 miles each direction. I take a shower right before I leave, and when I get there I just have to rinse down and change out of my cycling jersey. The theory behind the pre-ride shower is that body odor is caused by bacteria on your skin, and showering temporarily knocks out enough of your bacteria that it won't cause significant odor during your ride. (I'm not aware of actual science on this topic, but I've asked a trusted coworker whether I smell after riding into work, and he says I don't. So there's your anecdotal data point...) So for me the bike is extremely practical even living in an area that wasn't designed with bicycles in mind. As for humidity, this is in south Florida—if we can manage it here, then we can handle the humidity pretty much anywhere in the US. Now I'm not saying everyone can or should bike a 52-mile round trip to work. But the point of this article is that this little experimental suburb has 5,500 people within a single square mile; biking or walking is a perfectly reasonable way to traverse such a small area at nearly any level of fitness, especially when you don't have to worry about automotive traffic, and for the few people who can't manage that there's the public transport option. Even on our hottest days here in south Florida, one can easily bike a mile, fully dressed, without breaking a sweat.
- jonknee 16y ago
  > Even on our hottest days here in south Florida, one can easily bike a mile, fully dressed, without breaking a sweat. Perhaps we're different, but I break a sweat in a couple minutes simply going outside in FL this time of year. Add riding a bike and I'm drenched.
  - Niten 16y ago
    Riding somewhere on a bicycle can keep you cooler than if you were just standing or walking outside, provided you're riding at a leisurely pace on a bicycle designed for road use (and not some horrific retail store contraption with useless knobby tires). At say 14 mph on a road bike, you aren't doing enough work to heat up, yet you're moving fast enough to get a good breeze that keeps you cooler than if you were standing still. When I'm just cycling through the town (rather than exercising), the only time I really feel the heat is when I'm stopped at a light.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
dejv 16y ago
In Europe there are good public transport in each city, so you don't need car at all. I use to commute 35 miles each way without owning car, it was taking quite a lot of time, so I moved closer to work, but I still don't own car.
guelo 16y ago
Do you realize that millions of people bike to work everyday right here in the good ol USA?
delackner 16y ago
If this argument was in favor of cars, for me it would be the same: Where am I supposed to park? You expect me to pay $400 a month just to park a car at home and another $400 to park it at the office? Cars are fun, but not very practical. It all depends on the environment you are in, which is not a static unchangeable monolith. You have choices. Maybe living somewhere where biking is practical would involve making choices that go against your priorities, but those are your priorities.
pmccool 16y ago
As well as what others have suggested (shower at work, don't try hard, etc) there are electric bicycles available that would address this issue. I've not tried one myself, but they seem to have a following. As for the long distances, I've known people to drive some of the way, stop where it's easy to park and ride the last bit (generally the bit with the most traffic congestion, so it can work quite well).
lispm 16y ago
I live in Hamburg, Germany. I always tried to use the bicycle for any regular work route under 20km. I use to use my bicycle for a job where I lived outside and the company was in some inner part in Hamburg. 18km. I also used it when I lived in some inner part and was working in some part of the harbour. 16km. There was a Fitness center near the office, I was a member of that chain of fitness centers. I was using the bicycle to get to that fitness center and have a shower there. Then I walked to the office. I would expect that it is important to take a shower before walking into office. It's just a matter of planning. Really good companies have showers for their employees. For example many of the larger companies have some kind of sports facilities. Additional to taking a shower, one also needs some fresh clothes. Also you need a save place for the bicycle. It takes some planning and organization, but once you use your bicycle three or more times per week to get to work and back it pays back. The excellent fitness is what you get in return. Currently I live in a suburb. The whole area is reduced to 30km/h for cars. I use my bicycle a lot. Bus station is 50 meters away. The bus comes every 20 minutes. The bus takes me in 5 or 10 minutes to two local city centers. The next local train is 15 minutes walking or 5 minutes by bus. That local train gets you in 18 minutes into Hamburg City. So, public transport is sufficient for me. Though there is also a Autobahn nearby. Generally connectivity is great. In the inner city of Hamburg one can now rent bicycles and a lot of planning is now done to improve the whole bicycle co system. Even the port authority of the Hamburg port, one of the largest in the world, thinks about using bicycles - they are working on a 'master plan' for using bicycles in the harbour region: http://www.hamburg-port-authority.de/presse-und-aktuelles/news/519-mit-dem-fahrrad-durch-den-hafen.html http://www.hamburg-port-authority.de/presse-und-aktuelles/ne...
confuzatron 16y ago
All problems can be overcome, @bobbyflanders, if you just let the light of Jesus flood into your life! :) (sorry, I meant 'bikes', not Jesus). EDIT: I knew this would get down-voted. No sense of humour these bicyclists ;) I my case, I have a short commute, but mostly drive it, because cycling is much more effort, and much less comfortable than driving. Sorry to have an incorrect opinion.
- confuzatron 16y ago
  Okay, okay. I'll cycle to work, next time it isn't raining.
benJIman 16y ago
Just wear lycra. People don't wear it because of how it looks. It's fast wicking. Even in mid 30s celsius I get to work far less sweaty than taking public transport. Most people who complain about sweat are trying to cycle in cotton. Just change when you get to work.

bitboxer 16y ago

I knew a guy who biked 50 Miles to work and showered at work. Everything is doable :) . A few friends of me bike in spain during the summer. You see, it can be done. All that's needed is a small shower at work and you are even fresher than by driving with your car. And sweating in the rush hour. If you drive more than 20 Miles you can't go by bike, yes, but you can drive shopping or to your friend by bike. Try to use it to go to the nearest pub on weekends. Just try it :) .

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

davidu 16y ago

It gets humid in Europe, too. They survive.

masklinn 16y ago
Most of Europe is far drier than the US. I don't know of any place in Europe which would be similar to Japan or Florida (consistent high heat and very high humidity during months on end in Summer), though they might very well exist.
- delackner 16y ago
  What's your point exactly? I bicycle to work in the heat and humidity you are describing, every day. As someone else said, if you just cruise at a conservative pace, you don't even sweat very much.
  - masklinn 16y ago
    > What's your point exactly? That davidu is not exactly fair in his declaration. > As someone else said, if you just cruise at a conservative pace, you don't even sweat very much. I'm the one who said that...
- baxter 16y ago
  Europe: http://www.intellicast.com/Global/Humidity.aspx?region=europ http://www.intellicast.com/Global/Humidity.aspx?region=europ USA: http://www.intellicast.com/Global/Humidity.aspx?region=namer http://www.intellicast.com/Global/Humidity.aspx?region=namer
  - Locke1689 16y ago
    Wow, that's the most I've ever seen anyone upvoted for completely inaccurate and misrepresented information. First, that's a real time view of each of the two regions. You don't think that the values may have been different during the day for Europe and the night for the US? More than that, you can't establish a viable trend from a single data point. Even if you did have the average high summer humidity index for Europe and the US (personally, after having lived in the swamp that is Maryland & Virginia, I'd take a look at them), you still need to overlay the temperature index. 100 relative humidity in Oslo doesn't mean a whole lot when it's a balmy 21C, right?
    - masklinn 16y ago
      Thank you for managing to express what I couldn't put into words. You have my gratitude.
    - baxter 16y ago
      I completely agree. I posted quickly before realising these weren't daily averages (and even then, that wouldn't necessarily prove anything). I should have modified the link when I realised my mistake but unfortunately I was busy.

ugh 16y ago

Bikes are great, but not very practical … if the infrastructure isn’t there. You know, city planning and stuff. I think the goal is not to get people to drive 50 miles to work, the goal is to make it possible for them to live so close to work (or appropriate public transport infrastructure) that they can bike there (or use public transport). You are right, bikes wouldn’t work in every case but sometimes they can replace cars just fine.

bitboxer 16y ago
Same can be said about cars :) .
- philwelch 16y ago
  The United States is a nationwide experiment in designing car-friendly infrastructure, and it's a complete disaster. No matter how many lanes the freeways have they're still stop-and-go at rush hour.
JohnFritzen 16y ago
Bikes already have the infrastructure, they are called "roads".
- pjscott 16y ago
  Roads would be great if it weren't for all the cars on them. Around here, if you're not a car, the roads aren't a safe place for you to be, ever.
- ugh 16y ago
  It’s mot as simple as that. It’s also not as simple as just adding some bike lines. The city for example needs to be fairly compact to be bike friendly — which means sprawl should be avoided. And sprawl is something you can’t just remove once it’s there. You also want to make sure that there are several big supermarkets at one end of the city and nothing much elsewhere. And so on. Those are all tricky problems.

masklinn 16y ago

> In other words, I should come into work completely drenched in sweat? With enough training (build up the habit) and if you don't exert yourself too much (it's not like you have to go 20mph all the way), you shouldn't sweat too much. Add in a pair of showers on work site and you're golden. > In addition, many people commute long distances to work, which may take up to an hour just by car. That's an issue of brain-dead urban planning and stupid personal housing considerations, not of bikes. > Bikes are great, but not very practical. The article, and all of Amsterdam or Münster, already prove you wrong. Why do you make declamations which are already disproven before they even get out your mouth?

organicgrant 16y ago
If you choose to live 50+ miles from work and commute everyday...you're making a compromise for a reason (spouse, slow real estate market, etc). But likely...you're doing it wrong. I am seeing an emergence of physically aware programmers who realize sitting in a chair all day isn't an healthy environment. Biking to and from work gives some great exercise and time to clear your head. pg gets ideas in the shower. I get them cruising on the bike. Same effect.
- organicgrant 16y ago
  OMG, there's another trending topic right now "Exercise Boosts Your Brain - Here's How" http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1580236 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1580236 I believe that post will also feed hungry trolls
- Locke1689 16y ago
  Fine but some of you biking zealots (bikees? bikees) need to realize that some people can't or don't want to ride a bike to work. The article wasn't completely about bikes, you're forgetting that there are options other than cars and bikes. The task for new developments is to build up a good system of public transportation. I think we should see that long before we see everyone biking to work. (Btw I actually run to work.)
bobbyflanders 16y ago

derefr 16y ago

Perhaps people would be better off not living in these places where it's impossible to survive without a climate-controlled bubble-environment :)

Niten 16y ago

I often bike to work, which for me is about 26 miles each direction. I take a shower right before I leave, and when I get there I just have to rinse down and change out of my cycling jersey. The theory behind the pre-ride shower is that body odor is caused by bacteria on your skin, and showering temporarily knocks out enough of your bacteria that it won't cause significant odor during your ride. (I'm not aware of actual science on this topic, but I've asked a trusted coworker whether I smell after riding into work, and he says I don't. So there's your anecdotal data point...) So for me the bike is extremely practical even living in an area that wasn't designed with bicycles in mind. As for humidity, this is in south Florida—if we can manage it here, then we can handle the humidity pretty much anywhere in the US. Now I'm not saying everyone can or should bike a 52-mile round trip to work. But the point of this article is that this little experimental suburb has 5,500 people within a single square mile; biking or walking is a perfectly reasonable way to traverse such a small area at nearly any level of fitness, especially when you don't have to worry about automotive traffic, and for the few people who can't manage that there's the public transport option. Even on our hottest days here in south Florida, one can easily bike a mile, fully dressed, without breaking a sweat.

jonknee 16y ago
> Even on our hottest days here in south Florida, one can easily bike a mile, fully dressed, without breaking a sweat. Perhaps we're different, but I break a sweat in a couple minutes simply going outside in FL this time of year. Add riding a bike and I'm drenched.
- Niten 16y ago
  Riding somewhere on a bicycle can keep you cooler than if you were just standing or walking outside, provided you're riding at a leisurely pace on a bicycle designed for road use (and not some horrific retail store contraption with useless knobby tires). At say 14 mph on a road bike, you aren't doing enough work to heat up, yet you're moving fast enough to get a good breeze that keeps you cooler than if you were standing still. When I'm just cycling through the town (rather than exercising), the only time I really feel the heat is when I'm stopped at a light.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

dejv 16y ago

In Europe there are good public transport in each city, so you don't need car at all. I use to commute 35 miles each way without owning car, it was taking quite a lot of time, so I moved closer to work, but I still don't own car.

guelo 16y ago

Do you realize that millions of people bike to work everyday right here in the good ol USA?

delackner 16y ago

If this argument was in favor of cars, for me it would be the same: Where am I supposed to park? You expect me to pay $400 a month just to park a car at home and another $400 to park it at the office? Cars are fun, but not very practical. It all depends on the environment you are in, which is not a static unchangeable monolith. You have choices. Maybe living somewhere where biking is practical would involve making choices that go against your priorities, but those are your priorities.

pmccool 16y ago

As well as what others have suggested (shower at work, don't try hard, etc) there are electric bicycles available that would address this issue. I've not tried one myself, but they seem to have a following. As for the long distances, I've known people to drive some of the way, stop where it's easy to park and ride the last bit (generally the bit with the most traffic congestion, so it can work quite well).

lispm 16y ago

I live in Hamburg, Germany. I always tried to use the bicycle for any regular work route under 20km. I use to use my bicycle for a job where I lived outside and the company was in some inner part in Hamburg. 18km. I also used it when I lived in some inner part and was working in some part of the harbour. 16km. There was a Fitness center near the office, I was a member of that chain of fitness centers. I was using the bicycle to get to that fitness center and have a shower there. Then I walked to the office. I would expect that it is important to take a shower before walking into office. It's just a matter of planning. Really good companies have showers for their employees. For example many of the larger companies have some kind of sports facilities. Additional to taking a shower, one also needs some fresh clothes. Also you need a save place for the bicycle. It takes some planning and organization, but once you use your bicycle three or more times per week to get to work and back it pays back. The excellent fitness is what you get in return. Currently I live in a suburb. The whole area is reduced to 30km/h for cars. I use my bicycle a lot. Bus station is 50 meters away. The bus comes every 20 minutes. The bus takes me in 5 or 10 minutes to two local city centers. The next local train is 15 minutes walking or 5 minutes by bus. That local train gets you in 18 minutes into Hamburg City. So, public transport is sufficient for me. Though there is also a Autobahn nearby. Generally connectivity is great. In the inner city of Hamburg one can now rent bicycles and a lot of planning is now done to improve the whole bicycle co system. Even the port authority of the Hamburg port, one of the largest in the world, thinks about using bicycles - they are working on a 'master plan' for using bicycles in the harbour region: http://www.hamburg-port-authority.de/presse-und-aktuelles/news/519-mit-dem-fahrrad-durch-den-hafen.html http://www.hamburg-port-authority.de/presse-und-aktuelles/ne...

confuzatron 16y ago

All problems can be overcome, @bobbyflanders, if you just let the light of Jesus flood into your life! :) (sorry, I meant 'bikes', not Jesus). EDIT: I knew this would get down-voted. No sense of humour these bicyclists ;) I my case, I have a short commute, but mostly drive it, because cycling is much more effort, and much less comfortable than driving. Sorry to have an incorrect opinion.

confuzatron 16y ago
Okay, okay. I'll cycle to work, next time it isn't raining.

benJIman 16y ago

Just wear lycra. People don't wear it because of how it looks. It's fast wicking. Even in mid 30s celsius I get to work far less sweaty than taking public transport. Most people who complain about sweat are trying to cycle in cotton. Just change when you get to work.