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> But since I don't work there, I have no good inside info Actually, I've been wondering why I hear less about people working at Apple than at other big tech c

> But since I don't work there, I have no good inside info Actually, I've been wondering why I hear less about people working at Apple than at other big tech companies. It seems everyone and their mother work at Google or Facebook, but no so much at Apple. Do they have less software engineers, or their employees are required to be more discrete?

OJFord 9y ago
> or their employees are required to be more discrete? Yes, I believe so. I've heard there are strict requirements on even internal discussion. (Who you can talk to; about what; where.)
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- addicted 9y ago
  I believe there was an article about how Apple was finding it extremely difficult to hire ML experts because of the secrecy they require. In order to mitigate that they mad an exception for their ML/AI engineers allowing them to publish papers to external journals and present at conferences.
- qhwudbebd 9y ago
  Presumably this is why their software is increasingly shoddy. But I wonder whether it's a direct effect of poor internal communications, or an indirect effect where the ludicrous secrecy has driven away any half-decent programmers.
skc 9y ago
Apple probably doesn't take too kindly to their employees talking about their work. I'd imagine it's a fire-able offense.
- chris_7 9y ago
  it is everywhere else too, but people do quit...
wil421 9y ago
Could it be the level of secrecy around Apple? I see responses for Google and Facebook devs on HN a lot but never Apple. The only people I know locally that work for Apple are remote customer support folks.
mikestew 9y ago
Do they have less software engineers, or their employees are required to be more discrete? I know but a few that work at Apple, and of those few they strike me as less forthcoming than the multitudes I've worked with and know at Microsoft. I've wondered if part of that is because Microsoft previews/pre-announces just about everything, whereas Apple (mostly, and not so much anymore) announces it when the shipping trucks show up at the local Apple store. So the outcome from the Microsoftie is, "it'll do this that and the other, but that's all I can say right now." From a recent conversation with an Apple employee: "they make me go in a special room to use the hardware, and I can't work from home. That's all I can say." Probably more so, last I looked, Apple has considerably fewer software employees than the other big companies.
- saagarjha 9y ago
  > Probably more so, last I looked, Apple has considerably fewer software employees than the other big companies. I don't think this is true. Apple, Google, and Microsoft all have on the order of 100K employees.
  - jsmthrowaway 9y ago
    Keep in mind that Apple directly employs retail staff.
    - saagarjha 9y ago
      Point taken. A closer look shows that about half of them are part of Apple corporate.
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OJFord 9y ago

> or their employees are required to be more discrete? Yes, I believe so. I've heard there are strict requirements on even internal discussion. (Who you can talk to; about what; where.)

deleted 9y ago
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addicted 9y ago
I believe there was an article about how Apple was finding it extremely difficult to hire ML experts because of the secrecy they require. In order to mitigate that they mad an exception for their ML/AI engineers allowing them to publish papers to external journals and present at conferences.
qhwudbebd 9y ago
Presumably this is why their software is increasingly shoddy. But I wonder whether it's a direct effect of poor internal communications, or an indirect effect where the ludicrous secrecy has driven away any half-decent programmers.

skc 9y ago

Apple probably doesn't take too kindly to their employees talking about their work. I'd imagine it's a fire-able offense.

chris_7 9y ago
it is everywhere else too, but people do quit...

wil421 9y ago

Could it be the level of secrecy around Apple? I see responses for Google and Facebook devs on HN a lot but never Apple. The only people I know locally that work for Apple are remote customer support folks.

mikestew 9y ago

Do they have less software engineers, or their employees are required to be more discrete? I know but a few that work at Apple, and of those few they strike me as less forthcoming than the multitudes I've worked with and know at Microsoft. I've wondered if part of that is because Microsoft previews/pre-announces just about everything, whereas Apple (mostly, and not so much anymore) announces it when the shipping trucks show up at the local Apple store. So the outcome from the Microsoftie is, "it'll do this that and the other, but that's all I can say right now." From a recent conversation with an Apple employee: "they make me go in a special room to use the hardware, and I can't work from home. That's all I can say." Probably more so, last I looked, Apple has considerably fewer software employees than the other big companies.

saagarjha 9y ago
> Probably more so, last I looked, Apple has considerably fewer software employees than the other big companies. I don't think this is true. Apple, Google, and Microsoft all have on the order of 100K employees.
- jsmthrowaway 9y ago
  Keep in mind that Apple directly employs retail staff.
  - saagarjha 9y ago
    Point taken. A closer look shows that about half of them are part of Apple corporate.

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