6 ms·

Whereoscope (YC S10) Gives Parents An Easy Way To Track Where Their Kids Are

58 points by jamesg 16y ago

blintson 16y ago
Growing up with cellphones was bad enough. Kids need their space. Whereoscope has made the lives of lots of kids slightly worse.
- dennisgorelik 16y ago
  I don't think kids would care. Not only kids -- adults care about privacy less and less every year.
  - olalonde 16y ago
    As a kid, I had much more to hide than as an adult - especially from my parents.
    - mickdj 16y ago
      Privacy levels are changing but most kids would love to get an iphone in exchange for letting their parents know where they are. That's the feedback we're getting from them so far!
      - liedra 16y ago
        The reason you're getting this feedback is because they don't know what it really means! What you think you're hearing: Kids don't mind being monitored. What you're really hearing: Kids want an iPhone. You're creating an illusion of personal choice that just doesn't exist.
- andreyf 16y ago
  Don't underestimate kids. They've been battling parents for control for centuries. The average 13 year old will find 10 ways of cheating the system in the first day of having it. Three categories come to mind: 1. Stupid way: lie and give your phone to a friend while you go to your boyfriend's house, 2. Social engineer: turn it off every other day, telling your parents 'my phone just keeps crashing since you installed this virus on it. And how do you know it's not sending my location to hackers?' 3. And some of them might even be inspired enough to learn some real hacking: this will encourage a generation of hackers into hackerdom. Technology might advance quickly, but human relationships stay more or less the same.
  - dman 16y ago
    Step 1) edit /etc/hosts to serve the whereoscope website locally Step 2) Run local server to serve doctored version of whereoscope showing yourself in a safe location. Step 3) Party.
    - gojomo 16y ago
      Let's apply to YC Winter'11 with this product.
  - jamesg 16y ago
    Totally! I think there's probably always going to be ways that these sorts of systems will be evaded; it's just the nature of the beast with computer systems. What we're hoping we'll be able to do though is to build this in such a way that there's value to the kids as well as the parents. If the choice is between getting an annoying phone-call everyday to ask where you are and having this app, I think for all the times when the kid isn't doing something malicious, they'll prefer to just have the app. Similarly the app lets kids locate their parents as well -- this can be handy if they're waiting for a lift for example. The last line of defence is that we plan to build in features to tell parents when the app has been disabled by the kid. Saying that the app has crashed is one thing, but if that results in an angry phone call telling them to start it up again -- even if it has just crashed -- I think kids will be less inclined to keep playing that card. Awesome feedback though. Keep it coming, dudes!
    - borisk 16y ago
      Bye bye, GPS - http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.35801 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.35801
    - plinkplonk 16y ago
      "The last line of defence is that we plan to build in features to tell parents when the app has been disabled by the kid. Saying that the app has crashed is one thing, but if that results in an angry phone call telling them to start it up again -- even if it has just crashed -- I think kids will be less inclined to keep playing that card." So in other words you do plan to (help parents) invade kids privacy even when the kids actively don't want their parents to know where they are. The word "defence" in that sentence is pretty revealing - your frame of perception seems to be that of a battle between kids trying to get away from your app and parents who don't want them to. Your " kid who want to see how far away their mother is when she's coming to pick them up," scenario doesn't need this feature. "We, like you, hate the idea of abusing trust and privacy. However, children who want their parents to know when they're getting home from soccer practise, or see how far away their mother is when she's coming to pick them up, is quite a different scenario." Yeah that's why kids can't turn the app off without letting their parents know ;-). "We, like you, hate the idea of abusing trust and privacy." is very believable, given that feature ;-) I guess it is all right (must be a dumb kid who'd accept such a poison pill gift ) as long as there is no sugarcoating involved and everyone (including the kids) knows what they are getting into. The latter (kids knowing what they are getting into is somewhat dubious). Somewhat slimy product in my personal opinion, but hey if it makes money I can't blame you for trying to get some. Next step: Spouse tracking so you know they aren't having an affair on the side. ;-) Next step: Employee tracking so you know how much time they are spending by the watercooler or the coffeeshop or whether they are really attending the tech conference your company sponsored , or even if any two employees are spending time in each other's bedrooms. As I said it must be a dumb person who'd accept this kind of un-switch-offable- without-warning-Big-Brother app on his or her phone. No different from an electronic monitoring device (as mandated by law for people under house arrest say) as long as you want to use your phone. The only difference is that it isn't strapped to you. If you could somehow add a breathalyzer to the IPhone you could broadcast the alcohol content in your blood to your parents. How about letting your parents know how long and when you spoke to whom? Maybe add some speech recognition to catch any "dirty language". All unswitch off able of course! Surely there's an app for that!
deleted 16y ago
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- dennisgorelik 16y ago
  It's not micromanagement. It's monitoring. My concern though is that application monitors where iPhone is, not exactly where kid is.
  - markbao 16y ago
    Yeah, I'm going to delete my comment. Without the mindset of their target market, I don't have anything constructive to say about their product.
  - mickdj 16y ago
    It's very true, but seems unlikely that a kid with a cool new iPhone would want to put it down. As I think James has been detailing above, it's not set up as a tug-of-war between parent and child. Both the parent and the child get value out of it e.g. the kid can see how long until mum or dad arrives to pick them up.
  - gojomo 16y ago
    application monitors where iPhone is, not exactly where kid is That's why v2 will allow remote microphone/camera activation.
    - mickdj 16y ago
      That seems funny but it's definitely the opposite direction to where we're going :-) We're just focused on building a system that both kids and parents enjoy using.
      - gojomo 16y ago
        While I quip -- and have concerns about monitoring trends in society -- I know that parents want your product, children will tolerate it (especially if it means getting a smartphone), and it's inevitable. So I hope you build the best system balancing all their interests, and congrats on the launch.
palish 16y ago
Who would give their 8-12 year old an iPhone 3GS / iPhone 4? Or rather, is that market big enough? Maybe eventually, but this seems almost premature.
- catch23 16y ago
  on the bright side, there's now a great reason for 12yr olds to beg their parents for an iPhone 4.
  - jamesg 16y ago
    I think kids are already begging their parents for an iPhone 4 :) If this does push parents across the line and they decide to get their kids an iPhone, we want to provide them with an awesome service that they'll see some value from too.
- MartinCron 16y ago
  My 8-12 year old will get an iPhone4 the moment I get my hands on an iPhone5.
  - palish 16y ago
    Right. Which is a year from now. Which is also an eternity in startup time.
    - jamesg 16y ago
      That's true, but from the numbers we've been able to dig up, the growth rate is pretty impressive. We're cheap to run and hard to kill, so we're pretty optimistic that we can make this work!
      - palish 16y ago
        By the way, are you located around the SF area? Your profile doesn't have any contact info.
olalonde 16y ago
I wonder about the legality of this service. Are parents really allowed to track their kids in this fashion? Until what age? etc. This isn't meant to be rhetorical as I am really ignorant on the matter.
- jackowayed 16y ago
  I don't think there's any law against it if the kids know about it (and thus consent by taking the iPhone and enabling the app). If the kids are over 18 and you were to track them without their knowledge, that might be illegal.
  - mickdj 16y ago
    There are basically 2 sides: - Can kids consent to letting their parents know where they are - Is the system secure enough to unauthorized access We're very serious about getting both right!
    - dman 16y ago
      How do you handle the following edge cases 1) a kid using the product grows over 18 while the product is still installed on their phone? 2) Does a person being monitored get some visual feedback about the fact that theyre being tracked ?
      - mickdj 16y ago
        1) It's really up to the families - if they are ok with sharing location data then they can keep it running. It seems like this would be most useful when the kids are 12 to 14 years old. We have very plans for products that extend up and down the age range, but this isn't it. 2) All parties on the system get the same visibility; you can see your own history and your parent's history in the same way that they can see yours. We've really tried hard to make the app useful to both parents and kids.
        dman 16y ago
dman 16y ago
I think this and similar products also opens a business opportunity for making software / services for kids that allow them to evade these controls.
nreece 16y ago
I wonder if the founders are parents in real-life?
- mickdj 16y ago
  We're not, but I was a junior high school teacher in Japan for 2 years before I moved to the US. Mick
  - nicholasjbs 16y ago
    Why the heck is a question up-voted to 4 points and its actual answer down-voted to 0?
whyme 16y ago
I doubt the company will succeed with a website like that. It looks nice, but has enough problems. 1. It doesn't clarify IF your kid requires a smartphone. Anyone not coming from the the article would wonder if there was 1 phone for the parent and a wrist-watch or something for the kid. It may seem obvious to many, but the average person hitting the site would probably not know, then try to use the feedback tool, which leads to #2. 2. The feedback tool makes you fill out the form first then after all that leads you to sign in or create an account -with no way out. What a shitty way to do it. It's not a social media site, it's a business. Subtle things like this can make a company flop. If they can't get the basics down, why would I want to do business with them? As for the product. I agree with the previous post, like as if my kids are going to have a smart phone. Just my 2 cents.
- jamesg 16y ago
  Yep, that's totally fair. The website is in pretty bad shape. We're following the advice we've been given which is that we should launch as soon as possible. To that end we've put a lot of work into the app, but the website largely remains a TODO.
  - whyme 16y ago
    Understood. PS. You're probably only thinking of the software aspect, but food for thought - If there was a smartphone-to-wristwatch version - I'd buy one right away, and I doubt I'd look at the price tag.
    - jamesg 16y ago
      Awesome! Thanks for the great feedback!
    - jackowayed 16y ago
      One issue is that kids are a lot more willing to be without this dedicated tracker than their phone. As long as they can get the wristwatch back before going home, there's no cost to leaving the wristwatch where they're supposed to be and then continuing with their regularly scheduled mischief. But kids hate to be separated from their phone. Now, it's possible that it could have some combination of sensors that at least made pretty sure that some humanoid was wearing the thing. But that increases the cost and battery usage. Another issue is that the kids could just "forget" to charge it a lot. Integrating it with their phone means that most things that keep the tracking from working also keeps them from using their phone, which is pretty much a nightmare to most teens.
nitesher 16y ago
did the founders think about other markets? i see a better use with my parents (65+) than my child since she doesn't/won't have an iPhone 3gs or 4.
- jamesg 16y ago
  Definitely! Whereoscope lets you setup 4 people at the moment (and we can always make it more or fewer at any time), so they don't need to be your kids. We're really excited about seeing how people will take this thing and use it. It's awesome as a founder to see people making use of your product in ways you didn't expect. So you can be sure that if people want to do this, we'll evolve the product to make sure it's an awesome experience for them. We picked families as a starting point because we got a lot of feedback that this is something people wanted, but we'll definitely be watching to see how people use it.
jscore 16y ago
I don't understand this whole spying on your kids market. I wouldn't spy on my kids. Lack of trust becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. How about spying on your gf or bf or something?
- mickdj 16y ago
  Hi, To be clear - this is about building trust not a lack of it. The kids can see where the parents are, and the parents can see where the kid is. We agree 100% that setting this up as a spying tool isn't useful for the parents, the child, or the family.
- smokey_the_bear 16y ago
  I have no need to know where my fiance is at all times, but I really like being able to see where he is on Google Latitude. It often saves a phone call and makes planning simpler, I can see when he's on his way home.
  - mickdj 16y ago
    Yeah we're really aiming to cut down the number of times you have to call and say 'Where are you?' 'Where are you now?' 'How about now?' :-)
hartror 16y ago
Alternate title: Whereoscope give parents a way to find their kids lost iPhones.
ck2 16y ago
How about picking up the phone and asking where they are? I mean knowing where they are doesn't tell you if they are doing something they should not be doing, which after watching the trouble these kids in this neighborhood get into between 3pm and 6pm before their parents get home - trust me you better find out what your kids are up to, not just where.
- jamesg 16y ago
  There'll definitely still be times when you'll want to pick up the phone and call them. For sure. But our belief is that there's also plenty of times when you really do just want to know where they are. If you're a busy person (say you're a single parent who's at work when their kids arrive home), being able to quickly check that your kids got home ok is huge piece of mind, for a very small time investment. Also consider the equation when you've got a few kids running around -- being able to open our app and see where they all are in a second or two is going to be easier than calling them all up. There will also be times when you're in a meeting and discreetly checking this app is going to work much better than running outside to make a few calls and track down all your children.
  - ck2 16y ago
    Kids are pretty damn smart when it comes to lying, unfortunately. I think they are going to learn to come home, leave their phone there (or at a friend's house) and then go do whatever they want, secure in knowing they are definitely fooling mom/dad. So you are right back to where you were before they had a phone at all.
    - shykes 16y ago
      I think you underestimate how addicted kids are to their smartphones. There's no way they're going to hang out with friends without it. How would they take their hourly facebook portrait?
liedra 16y ago
I know the founders personally (sorry M&J!) but in my professional capacity as a technology ethicist I think this is all shades of wrong. Trust isn't about knowing where your kids are, it's about communication. Children have rights to privacy as well, and this includes from their parents: being able to be independent and reason things through yourself ("should I wag school?"), looking at the consequences of the actions fully on the basis of other issues than "mum & dad can see where I am" is an important part of growing up too. This app seems to me to entirely catering to the overprotective, paranoid parents who cannot communicate with their children. It's not about whether the tech is right or effective, it's about whether we should, as a society, be encouraging this sort of tech and the behaviour that comes with it. And when it comes to encouraging independence, good communication, and healthy relationships, this sort of monitoring is not conducive to this. Sorry guys, I love supporting you but some of your apps are pretty questionable, ethically speaking :(
- onan_barbarian 16y ago
  How dare you accuse Mick of being ethically questionable? This app just grows from his natural desire to keep track of his two or more lovely children, as he has written about so passionately in this review of his own app: http://appcomments.com/user/42248226?country=143441 http://appcomments.com/user/42248226?country=143441
  - Deestan 16y ago
    Because the app caters to an irrational fear while invading kids' privacy.
    - c1sc0 16y ago
      An extra upvote because you bring up irrational fears, which I believe are destroying the very fabric of our society. This is the same mechanism that justifies, CCTV camera, body scanners & co. I worry more about how fear is changing society than about the privacy issues.
- jamesg 16y ago
DavidSJ 16y ago
I, like others, have serious ethical problems with this and am disappointed in YC for funding it.
plinkplonk 16y ago
So did one of you fake having a kid to post a "review" on the AppStore? A poster on Tech Crunch says you did. IIRC you mention elsewhere on this thread that neither of your is a parent but on TC someone said this. I quote " I think these products are great. For example, Mick Johnson, CEO of Wheroscope/Stalqer/Zotora/ChildPulse/BindTwo/Gasbag/Knetckr/… was a childless 30-something guy at the start of 2009. But due to the power of location-based services, he has apparently discovered that he has not one, but multiple children, one of whom is apparently old enough to be taking soccer lessons. From a ‘review’ that Mick posted to the App Store, of his own product: “I think it’s great that I can give my child more freedom and at the same time get more peace of mind. I’m not worried about where he goes, but it actually makes his life easier if he doesn’t have to keep calling me to let me know he’s gotten home from school or is later to soccer practice. At the same time, it’s easier for him to know how long until I arrive when I’m driving over to pick him up. I would love to be able see more than 1 of my kids on it though – looking forward to the update. “ Is this guy blowing smoke? Or did you guys fake a "review"?
- KlahanMontri 16y ago
  Someone else further down on this thread posted the same "fake review" thing with this link: http://appcomments.com/user/42248226?country=143441 http://appcomments.com/user/42248226?country=143441 Don't know if MickMountainView is the same person as Mick Johnson but he sure likes their apps.
c1sc0 16y ago
Who else thought 'cute, typical for Americans' when reading this? Somehow I have a hard time imagining families around me in Europe using such a service. The fact that there is a market for these kinds of apps is telling about US society and its approach to parenting. Really, wtf!? Just let go a little & let your kids run wild. Also: how long until these kids start hacking the system: pay off some other kid to carry the phone as an alibi? Even better: reverse engineer the protocol & write their own spoofing app. Now THAT would be a good education.
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duck 16y ago
Does app naming not matter very much when it comes to the App Store? It seems like their original name was a lot better with ChildPulse. Also, did anyone notice how they alternated with the misspelling of "Wherescope" and the correct name?
dzlobin 16y ago
It seems really odd to me that there are such gaps in logic in this. "Sorry mom, my phone died" This will actually happen because obviously your child will play with it all day and we all know what an iphone battery is like But if they wanted to hide something, do you really think they won't figure out how to turn this app off/spoof their location?
Poiesis 16y ago
I have four kids and would consider this product. Of course, I have similar software monitoring my bike commute for my wife's edification. I'm the one who set it up; I don't feel particularly oppressed. I would hope that my kids would view this as an easy way to keep the parents up to date without having to actually call/SMS.

58 points by jamesg 16y ago

Growing up with cellphones was bad enough. Kids need their space. Whereoscope has made the lives of lots of kids slightly worse.

dennisgorelik 16y ago
I don't think kids would care. Not only kids -- adults care about privacy less and less every year.
- olalonde 16y ago
  As a kid, I had much more to hide than as an adult - especially from my parents.
  - mickdj 16y ago
    Privacy levels are changing but most kids would love to get an iphone in exchange for letting their parents know where they are. That's the feedback we're getting from them so far!
    - liedra 16y ago
      The reason you're getting this feedback is because they don't know what it really means! What you think you're hearing: Kids don't mind being monitored. What you're really hearing: Kids want an iPhone. You're creating an illusion of personal choice that just doesn't exist.
andreyf 16y ago
Don't underestimate kids. They've been battling parents for control for centuries. The average 13 year old will find 10 ways of cheating the system in the first day of having it. Three categories come to mind: 1. Stupid way: lie and give your phone to a friend while you go to your boyfriend's house, 2. Social engineer: turn it off every other day, telling your parents 'my phone just keeps crashing since you installed this virus on it. And how do you know it's not sending my location to hackers?' 3. And some of them might even be inspired enough to learn some real hacking: this will encourage a generation of hackers into hackerdom. Technology might advance quickly, but human relationships stay more or less the same.
- dman 16y ago
  Step 1) edit /etc/hosts to serve the whereoscope website locally Step 2) Run local server to serve doctored version of whereoscope showing yourself in a safe location. Step 3) Party.
  - gojomo 16y ago
    Let's apply to YC Winter'11 with this product.
- jamesg 16y ago
  Totally! I think there's probably always going to be ways that these sorts of systems will be evaded; it's just the nature of the beast with computer systems. What we're hoping we'll be able to do though is to build this in such a way that there's value to the kids as well as the parents. If the choice is between getting an annoying phone-call everyday to ask where you are and having this app, I think for all the times when the kid isn't doing something malicious, they'll prefer to just have the app. Similarly the app lets kids locate their parents as well -- this can be handy if they're waiting for a lift for example. The last line of defence is that we plan to build in features to tell parents when the app has been disabled by the kid. Saying that the app has crashed is one thing, but if that results in an angry phone call telling them to start it up again -- even if it has just crashed -- I think kids will be less inclined to keep playing that card. Awesome feedback though. Keep it coming, dudes!
  - borisk 16y ago
    Bye bye, GPS - http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.35801 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.35801
  - plinkplonk 16y ago
    "The last line of defence is that we plan to build in features to tell parents when the app has been disabled by the kid. Saying that the app has crashed is one thing, but if that results in an angry phone call telling them to start it up again -- even if it has just crashed -- I think kids will be less inclined to keep playing that card." So in other words you do plan to (help parents) invade kids privacy even when the kids actively don't want their parents to know where they are. The word "defence" in that sentence is pretty revealing - your frame of perception seems to be that of a battle between kids trying to get away from your app and parents who don't want them to. Your " kid who want to see how far away their mother is when she's coming to pick them up," scenario doesn't need this feature. "We, like you, hate the idea of abusing trust and privacy. However, children who want their parents to know when they're getting home from soccer practise, or see how far away their mother is when she's coming to pick them up, is quite a different scenario." Yeah that's why kids can't turn the app off without letting their parents know ;-). "We, like you, hate the idea of abusing trust and privacy." is very believable, given that feature ;-) I guess it is all right (must be a dumb kid who'd accept such a poison pill gift ) as long as there is no sugarcoating involved and everyone (including the kids) knows what they are getting into. The latter (kids knowing what they are getting into is somewhat dubious). Somewhat slimy product in my personal opinion, but hey if it makes money I can't blame you for trying to get some. Next step: Spouse tracking so you know they aren't having an affair on the side. ;-) Next step: Employee tracking so you know how much time they are spending by the watercooler or the coffeeshop or whether they are really attending the tech conference your company sponsored , or even if any two employees are spending time in each other's bedrooms. As I said it must be a dumb person who'd accept this kind of un-switch-offable- without-warning-Big-Brother app on his or her phone. No different from an electronic monitoring device (as mandated by law for people under house arrest say) as long as you want to use your phone. The only difference is that it isn't strapped to you. If you could somehow add a breathalyzer to the IPhone you could broadcast the alcohol content in your blood to your parents. How about letting your parents know how long and when you spoke to whom? Maybe add some speech recognition to catch any "dirty language". All unswitch off able of course! Surely there's an app for that!

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dennisgorelik 16y ago
It's not micromanagement. It's monitoring. My concern though is that application monitors where iPhone is, not exactly where kid is.
- markbao 16y ago
  Yeah, I'm going to delete my comment. Without the mindset of their target market, I don't have anything constructive to say about their product.
- mickdj 16y ago
  It's very true, but seems unlikely that a kid with a cool new iPhone would want to put it down. As I think James has been detailing above, it's not set up as a tug-of-war between parent and child. Both the parent and the child get value out of it e.g. the kid can see how long until mum or dad arrives to pick them up.
- gojomo 16y ago
  application monitors where iPhone is, not exactly where kid is That's why v2 will allow remote microphone/camera activation.
  - mickdj 16y ago
    That seems funny but it's definitely the opposite direction to where we're going :-) We're just focused on building a system that both kids and parents enjoy using.
    - gojomo 16y ago
      While I quip -- and have concerns about monitoring trends in society -- I know that parents want your product, children will tolerate it (especially if it means getting a smartphone), and it's inevitable. So I hope you build the best system balancing all their interests, and congrats on the launch.

palish 16y ago

Who would give their 8-12 year old an iPhone 3GS / iPhone 4? Or rather, is that market big enough? Maybe eventually, but this seems almost premature.

catch23 16y ago
on the bright side, there's now a great reason for 12yr olds to beg their parents for an iPhone 4.
- jamesg 16y ago
  I think kids are already begging their parents for an iPhone 4 :) If this does push parents across the line and they decide to get their kids an iPhone, we want to provide them with an awesome service that they'll see some value from too.
MartinCron 16y ago
My 8-12 year old will get an iPhone4 the moment I get my hands on an iPhone5.
- palish 16y ago
  Right. Which is a year from now. Which is also an eternity in startup time.
  - jamesg 16y ago
    That's true, but from the numbers we've been able to dig up, the growth rate is pretty impressive. We're cheap to run and hard to kill, so we're pretty optimistic that we can make this work!
    - palish 16y ago
      By the way, are you located around the SF area? Your profile doesn't have any contact info.

olalonde 16y ago

I wonder about the legality of this service. Are parents really allowed to track their kids in this fashion? Until what age? etc. This isn't meant to be rhetorical as I am really ignorant on the matter.

jackowayed 16y ago
I don't think there's any law against it if the kids know about it (and thus consent by taking the iPhone and enabling the app). If the kids are over 18 and you were to track them without their knowledge, that might be illegal.
- mickdj 16y ago
  There are basically 2 sides: - Can kids consent to letting their parents know where they are - Is the system secure enough to unauthorized access We're very serious about getting both right!
  - dman 16y ago
    How do you handle the following edge cases 1) a kid using the product grows over 18 while the product is still installed on their phone? 2) Does a person being monitored get some visual feedback about the fact that theyre being tracked ?
    - mickdj 16y ago
      1) It's really up to the families - if they are ok with sharing location data then they can keep it running. It seems like this would be most useful when the kids are 12 to 14 years old. We have very plans for products that extend up and down the age range, but this isn't it. 2) All parties on the system get the same visibility; you can see your own history and your parent's history in the same way that they can see yours. We've really tried hard to make the app useful to both parents and kids.
      - dman 16y ago

dman 16y ago

I think this and similar products also opens a business opportunity for making software / services for kids that allow them to evade these controls.

nreece 16y ago

I wonder if the founders are parents in real-life?

mickdj 16y ago
We're not, but I was a junior high school teacher in Japan for 2 years before I moved to the US. Mick
- nicholasjbs 16y ago
  Why the heck is a question up-voted to 4 points and its actual answer down-voted to 0?

whyme 16y ago

I doubt the company will succeed with a website like that. It looks nice, but has enough problems. 1. It doesn't clarify IF your kid requires a smartphone. Anyone not coming from the the article would wonder if there was 1 phone for the parent and a wrist-watch or something for the kid. It may seem obvious to many, but the average person hitting the site would probably not know, then try to use the feedback tool, which leads to #2. 2. The feedback tool makes you fill out the form first then after all that leads you to sign in or create an account -with no way out. What a shitty way to do it. It's not a social media site, it's a business. Subtle things like this can make a company flop. If they can't get the basics down, why would I want to do business with them? As for the product. I agree with the previous post, like as if my kids are going to have a smart phone. Just my 2 cents.

jamesg 16y ago
Yep, that's totally fair. The website is in pretty bad shape. We're following the advice we've been given which is that we should launch as soon as possible. To that end we've put a lot of work into the app, but the website largely remains a TODO.
- whyme 16y ago
  Understood. PS. You're probably only thinking of the software aspect, but food for thought - If there was a smartphone-to-wristwatch version - I'd buy one right away, and I doubt I'd look at the price tag.
  - jamesg 16y ago
    Awesome! Thanks for the great feedback!
  - jackowayed 16y ago
    One issue is that kids are a lot more willing to be without this dedicated tracker than their phone. As long as they can get the wristwatch back before going home, there's no cost to leaving the wristwatch where they're supposed to be and then continuing with their regularly scheduled mischief. But kids hate to be separated from their phone. Now, it's possible that it could have some combination of sensors that at least made pretty sure that some humanoid was wearing the thing. But that increases the cost and battery usage. Another issue is that the kids could just "forget" to charge it a lot. Integrating it with their phone means that most things that keep the tracking from working also keeps them from using their phone, which is pretty much a nightmare to most teens.

nitesher 16y ago

did the founders think about other markets? i see a better use with my parents (65+) than my child since she doesn't/won't have an iPhone 3gs or 4.

jamesg 16y ago
Definitely! Whereoscope lets you setup 4 people at the moment (and we can always make it more or fewer at any time), so they don't need to be your kids. We're really excited about seeing how people will take this thing and use it. It's awesome as a founder to see people making use of your product in ways you didn't expect. So you can be sure that if people want to do this, we'll evolve the product to make sure it's an awesome experience for them. We picked families as a starting point because we got a lot of feedback that this is something people wanted, but we'll definitely be watching to see how people use it.

jscore 16y ago

I don't understand this whole spying on your kids market. I wouldn't spy on my kids. Lack of trust becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. How about spying on your gf or bf or something?

mickdj 16y ago
Hi, To be clear - this is about building trust not a lack of it. The kids can see where the parents are, and the parents can see where the kid is. We agree 100% that setting this up as a spying tool isn't useful for the parents, the child, or the family.
smokey_the_bear 16y ago
I have no need to know where my fiance is at all times, but I really like being able to see where he is on Google Latitude. It often saves a phone call and makes planning simpler, I can see when he's on his way home.
- mickdj 16y ago
  Yeah we're really aiming to cut down the number of times you have to call and say 'Where are you?' 'Where are you now?' 'How about now?' :-)

hartror 16y ago

Alternate title: Whereoscope give parents a way to find their kids lost iPhones.

ck2 16y ago

How about picking up the phone and asking where they are? I mean knowing where they are doesn't tell you if they are doing something they should not be doing, which after watching the trouble these kids in this neighborhood get into between 3pm and 6pm before their parents get home - trust me you better find out what your kids are up to, not just where.

jamesg 16y ago
There'll definitely still be times when you'll want to pick up the phone and call them. For sure. But our belief is that there's also plenty of times when you really do just want to know where they are. If you're a busy person (say you're a single parent who's at work when their kids arrive home), being able to quickly check that your kids got home ok is huge piece of mind, for a very small time investment. Also consider the equation when you've got a few kids running around -- being able to open our app and see where they all are in a second or two is going to be easier than calling them all up. There will also be times when you're in a meeting and discreetly checking this app is going to work much better than running outside to make a few calls and track down all your children.
- ck2 16y ago
  Kids are pretty damn smart when it comes to lying, unfortunately. I think they are going to learn to come home, leave their phone there (or at a friend's house) and then go do whatever they want, secure in knowing they are definitely fooling mom/dad. So you are right back to where you were before they had a phone at all.
  - shykes 16y ago
    I think you underestimate how addicted kids are to their smartphones. There's no way they're going to hang out with friends without it. How would they take their hourly facebook portrait?

liedra 16y ago

I know the founders personally (sorry M&J!) but in my professional capacity as a technology ethicist I think this is all shades of wrong. Trust isn't about knowing where your kids are, it's about communication. Children have rights to privacy as well, and this includes from their parents: being able to be independent and reason things through yourself ("should I wag school?"), looking at the consequences of the actions fully on the basis of other issues than "mum & dad can see where I am" is an important part of growing up too. This app seems to me to entirely catering to the overprotective, paranoid parents who cannot communicate with their children. It's not about whether the tech is right or effective, it's about whether we should, as a society, be encouraging this sort of tech and the behaviour that comes with it. And when it comes to encouraging independence, good communication, and healthy relationships, this sort of monitoring is not conducive to this. Sorry guys, I love supporting you but some of your apps are pretty questionable, ethically speaking :(

onan_barbarian 16y ago
How dare you accuse Mick of being ethically questionable? This app just grows from his natural desire to keep track of his two or more lovely children, as he has written about so passionately in this review of his own app: http://appcomments.com/user/42248226?country=143441 http://appcomments.com/user/42248226?country=143441
- Deestan 16y ago
  Because the app caters to an irrational fear while invading kids' privacy.
  - c1sc0 16y ago
    An extra upvote because you bring up irrational fears, which I believe are destroying the very fabric of our society. This is the same mechanism that justifies, CCTV camera, body scanners & co. I worry more about how fear is changing society than about the privacy issues.
jamesg 16y ago

DavidSJ 16y ago

I, like others, have serious ethical problems with this and am disappointed in YC for funding it.

plinkplonk 16y ago

So did one of you fake having a kid to post a "review" on the AppStore? A poster on Tech Crunch says you did. IIRC you mention elsewhere on this thread that neither of your is a parent but on TC someone said this. I quote " I think these products are great. For example, Mick Johnson, CEO of Wheroscope/Stalqer/Zotora/ChildPulse/BindTwo/Gasbag/Knetckr/… was a childless 30-something guy at the start of 2009. But due to the power of location-based services, he has apparently discovered that he has not one, but multiple children, one of whom is apparently old enough to be taking soccer lessons. From a ‘review’ that Mick posted to the App Store, of his own product: “I think it’s great that I can give my child more freedom and at the same time get more peace of mind. I’m not worried about where he goes, but it actually makes his life easier if he doesn’t have to keep calling me to let me know he’s gotten home from school or is later to soccer practice. At the same time, it’s easier for him to know how long until I arrive when I’m driving over to pick him up. I would love to be able see more than 1 of my kids on it though – looking forward to the update. “ Is this guy blowing smoke? Or did you guys fake a "review"?

KlahanMontri 16y ago
Someone else further down on this thread posted the same "fake review" thing with this link: http://appcomments.com/user/42248226?country=143441 http://appcomments.com/user/42248226?country=143441 Don't know if MickMountainView is the same person as Mick Johnson but he sure likes their apps.

c1sc0 16y ago

Who else thought 'cute, typical for Americans' when reading this? Somehow I have a hard time imagining families around me in Europe using such a service. The fact that there is a market for these kinds of apps is telling about US society and its approach to parenting. Really, wtf!? Just let go a little & let your kids run wild. Also: how long until these kids start hacking the system: pay off some other kid to carry the phone as an alibi? Even better: reverse engineer the protocol & write their own spoofing app. Now THAT would be a good education.

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duck 16y ago

Does app naming not matter very much when it comes to the App Store? It seems like their original name was a lot better with ChildPulse. Also, did anyone notice how they alternated with the misspelling of "Wherescope" and the correct name?

dzlobin 16y ago

It seems really odd to me that there are such gaps in logic in this. "Sorry mom, my phone died" This will actually happen because obviously your child will play with it all day and we all know what an iphone battery is like But if they wanted to hide something, do you really think they won't figure out how to turn this app off/spoof their location?

Poiesis 16y ago

I have four kids and would consider this product. Of course, I have similar software monitoring my bike commute for my wife's edification. I'm the one who set it up; I don't feel particularly oppressed. I would hope that my kids would view this as an easy way to keep the parents up to date without having to actually call/SMS.