9 ms·

I'm a forensic psychiatrist, and I work in corrections. I have been finding myself recommending books on stoicism to some of my patients after reading a few mys

I'm a forensic psychiatrist, and I work in corrections. I have been finding myself recommending books on stoicism to some of my patients after reading a few myself. It's a useful counterpoint to the modern idea that if your life is not Instagram/Pinboard material then you are a failure.

ndr 9y ago
Can you share some recommendations here?
- phren0logy 9y ago
  How to be a Stoic by Massimo Pigliucci (author of the article) A Guide to the Good Life by William Irvine I also read The Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday, which read too much like a self-help/business book to me. It might be to some people's tastes, but I found it lacked the substance of the two above. Ryan Holiday does have Daily Stoic email newsletter which is often interesting, though. Edit: Also, the 2003 Hays translation of Meditations is a much more accessible version of the text. I wish it was still in print.
  - jarrettch 9y ago
    I've read The Obstacle is the Way and Ego is the Enemy. I like his writing, but there is a business-y type of vibe to it. I also recently picked up The Daily Stoic book, which does help me get into a Stoic "mindset" (for lack of a better term) to start my day. Although with the way Meditations by Marcus Aurelius is written, you could almost just open up to a random page each morning, read a passage and reflect. But so far I've enjoyed this book.
  - Jimpulse 9y ago
    It most certainly is still in print. Fantastic translation.
- Red_Tarsius 9y ago
  How to be a Stoic changes the historical context of Stoicism to suit Pigliucci's personal views. I do not recommend that book, since his good bits are borrowed from The Inner Citadel. The author lost my respect when he supported the revisionism of the BBC. https://medium.com/opacity/comment-on-klueless-massimo-s-comments-massimo-pigliucci-of-the-mary-beard-twitter-debate-4c99a36de40 https://medium.com/opacity/comment-on-klueless-massimo-s-com... This short essay by GILBERT MURRAY is the best introduction to Stoicism: http://ia600304.us.archive.org/13/items/thestoicphilosop00murruoft/thestoicphilosop00murruoft.pdf http://ia600304.us.archive.org/13/items/thestoicphilosop00mu... After that, you can dive into: - EPICTETUS, Discourses, Fragments, Handbook (Oxford World's Classics. It features both Enchiridion and fragments) - MARCUS AURELIUS, Meditations (Oxford World's Classics) - Any collection of letters and essays written by SENECA - PIERRE HADOT, The Inner Citadel (Harvard Press, Translated by Michael Chase) Don't rush through the material, think deeply about every page you read. Don't forget to understand the life and history of each author. Context is extremely important. Don't let modern sensibilities fill the gaps. If you're looking for a solid introduction to traditional logic, I recommend you Socratic Logic, by Peter Kreeft. Lastly, the only way to truly understand Stoicism is to learn about Socrates and Plato as well.
  - ashark 9y ago
    For Seneca, U. of Chicago Press has been releasing a series of new translations[1] over the last few years. Good, if a bit expensive. May be some on the used market by now. Hardship and Happiness would probably be the most useful one if you're looking for his work on Stoicism, followed by Letters on Ethics, then Anger, Mercy, Revenge. They may eventually do a one or two volume "best of" compilation as sometimes publishers do when they release these long, expensive series, and maybe paperback editions. Dunno. There are ebook versions of them if that's your thing. [1] http://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/series/CWLAS.html http://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/series/CWLAS.html
eref 9y ago
Maybe I misunderstand stoic philosophy, but the rule to override emotional responses to failure with serenity strikes me as overly broad. Sometimes it is simply easier to get angry and let it out; especially if that sends a valid corrective signal to someone who is at fault. And even if the failure was just bad luck, it seem totally fine to be mad for a couple of minutes or hours. It is simply the way our brains have evolved to work and that's fine as long it is not harmful as long as nobody is harmed. Just be careful to not turn it into a constant state of anger because that will likely worsen your life rather than improve it. All of that can be subsumed under rationality.
- phren0logy 9y ago
  I think you are referencing more of the conversational definition of stoic rather than the philosophy of stoicism.
  - bitexploder 9y ago
    Agreed. The Stoics allowed themselves to have emotions. It is a common misconception that stoicism is about deadening feelings and reactions to the world. Stoics acknowledge and even embrace our emotions, but what stoics aim for after experiencing emotions and gut reactions is some of the most interesting parts of stoicism for modern readers. I always direct people to http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/goldsay.html http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/goldsay.html for a taste of Stoicism. It is still tricky because what most Stoics thought of as "God" and what a modern reader would interpret as (the Christian) God are pretty different, but it is still easy reading. Other than that caveat it is pretty easy to understand. As a sort of random aside, some of the most memorable sections of Epictetus for me are when he would referee to a pupil or discussion partner as a "slave". It always gave me a good chuckle. "My nose is running." "Why do you have hands, you slave?" e.g. quit complaining and wipe your nose. The color of comments like that really gives a feel for when the stoics think someone is being dense or wasting their mind. Some of the time now, when I am feeling particularly sorry for my self, Epictetus will pop up in my mind and call me a slave for complaining and it really helps me get over whatever random thing I was fixated on.
goialoq 9y ago
> modern idea that if your life is not Instagram/Pinboard material then you are a failure. what is this idea, and is it new?
- posterboy 9y ago
  for example, HN is ment for constructive discussion and some people mistake it for a chance to post snidy, rhethorical questions or sarcastic answers.

ndr 9y ago

Can you share some recommendations here?

phren0logy 9y ago
How to be a Stoic by Massimo Pigliucci (author of the article) A Guide to the Good Life by William Irvine I also read The Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday, which read too much like a self-help/business book to me. It might be to some people's tastes, but I found it lacked the substance of the two above. Ryan Holiday does have Daily Stoic email newsletter which is often interesting, though. Edit: Also, the 2003 Hays translation of Meditations is a much more accessible version of the text. I wish it was still in print.
- jarrettch 9y ago
  I've read The Obstacle is the Way and Ego is the Enemy. I like his writing, but there is a business-y type of vibe to it. I also recently picked up The Daily Stoic book, which does help me get into a Stoic "mindset" (for lack of a better term) to start my day. Although with the way Meditations by Marcus Aurelius is written, you could almost just open up to a random page each morning, read a passage and reflect. But so far I've enjoyed this book.
- Jimpulse 9y ago
  It most certainly is still in print. Fantastic translation.
Red_Tarsius 9y ago
How to be a Stoic changes the historical context of Stoicism to suit Pigliucci's personal views. I do not recommend that book, since his good bits are borrowed from The Inner Citadel. The author lost my respect when he supported the revisionism of the BBC. https://medium.com/opacity/comment-on-klueless-massimo-s-comments-massimo-pigliucci-of-the-mary-beard-twitter-debate-4c99a36de40 https://medium.com/opacity/comment-on-klueless-massimo-s-com... This short essay by GILBERT MURRAY is the best introduction to Stoicism: http://ia600304.us.archive.org/13/items/thestoicphilosop00murruoft/thestoicphilosop00murruoft.pdf http://ia600304.us.archive.org/13/items/thestoicphilosop00mu... After that, you can dive into: - EPICTETUS, Discourses, Fragments, Handbook (Oxford World's Classics. It features both Enchiridion and fragments) - MARCUS AURELIUS, Meditations (Oxford World's Classics) - Any collection of letters and essays written by SENECA - PIERRE HADOT, The Inner Citadel (Harvard Press, Translated by Michael Chase) Don't rush through the material, think deeply about every page you read. Don't forget to understand the life and history of each author. Context is extremely important. Don't let modern sensibilities fill the gaps. If you're looking for a solid introduction to traditional logic, I recommend you Socratic Logic, by Peter Kreeft. Lastly, the only way to truly understand Stoicism is to learn about Socrates and Plato as well.
- ashark 9y ago
  For Seneca, U. of Chicago Press has been releasing a series of new translations[1] over the last few years. Good, if a bit expensive. May be some on the used market by now. Hardship and Happiness would probably be the most useful one if you're looking for his work on Stoicism, followed by Letters on Ethics, then Anger, Mercy, Revenge. They may eventually do a one or two volume "best of" compilation as sometimes publishers do when they release these long, expensive series, and maybe paperback editions. Dunno. There are ebook versions of them if that's your thing. [1] http://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/series/CWLAS.html http://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/series/CWLAS.html

eref 9y ago

Maybe I misunderstand stoic philosophy, but the rule to override emotional responses to failure with serenity strikes me as overly broad. Sometimes it is simply easier to get angry and let it out; especially if that sends a valid corrective signal to someone who is at fault. And even if the failure was just bad luck, it seem totally fine to be mad for a couple of minutes or hours. It is simply the way our brains have evolved to work and that's fine as long it is not harmful as long as nobody is harmed. Just be careful to not turn it into a constant state of anger because that will likely worsen your life rather than improve it. All of that can be subsumed under rationality.

phren0logy 9y ago
I think you are referencing more of the conversational definition of stoic rather than the philosophy of stoicism.
- bitexploder 9y ago
  Agreed. The Stoics allowed themselves to have emotions. It is a common misconception that stoicism is about deadening feelings and reactions to the world. Stoics acknowledge and even embrace our emotions, but what stoics aim for after experiencing emotions and gut reactions is some of the most interesting parts of stoicism for modern readers. I always direct people to http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/goldsay.html http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/goldsay.html for a taste of Stoicism. It is still tricky because what most Stoics thought of as "God" and what a modern reader would interpret as (the Christian) God are pretty different, but it is still easy reading. Other than that caveat it is pretty easy to understand. As a sort of random aside, some of the most memorable sections of Epictetus for me are when he would referee to a pupil or discussion partner as a "slave". It always gave me a good chuckle. "My nose is running." "Why do you have hands, you slave?" e.g. quit complaining and wipe your nose. The color of comments like that really gives a feel for when the stoics think someone is being dense or wasting their mind. Some of the time now, when I am feeling particularly sorry for my self, Epictetus will pop up in my mind and call me a slave for complaining and it really helps me get over whatever random thing I was fixated on.

goialoq 9y ago

> modern idea that if your life is not Instagram/Pinboard material then you are a failure. what is this idea, and is it new?

posterboy 9y ago
for example, HN is ment for constructive discussion and some people mistake it for a chance to post snidy, rhethorical questions or sarcastic answers.