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> take the most critical, bullying group of individuals on the internet and throw them into one community; that is Reddit,” said Tuff. Hah! This guy must not u

> take the most critical, bullying group of individuals on the internet and throw them into one community; that is Reddit,” said Tuff. Hah! This guy must not use the web often. Also, for a guy who eventually hopes to sell ads on the Reddit platform, he's not doing a great job of putting lipstick on the pig.

seibelj 9y ago
I would say HN is far more critical and bullying than reddit, but then again we aren’t trying to lure advertisers
- pjc50 9y ago
  HN is more critical but less bullying. It rarely tolerates open crude abuse, but has a huge blind spot around "intellectual" bullying such as ""scientific"" racism.
  - wanderingjew 9y ago
    HN has a problem with the libertarian hellscape ideology of laws being an impediment to wealth. I would argue this oppressive ideology is far more violent than the dross that's skimmed off Reddit. Additionally, HN is far, far less intelligent than its users would have you believe, but that circles back to the edgelord libertarianism again.
    - thescribe 9y ago
      Ok so I get that you disagree but how is it violence?
      - wanderingjew 9y ago
        Oppression is violence [1]. The willful disregard of laws enacted by a democratically elected legislature (from Uber's disregard of Taxi Medallions, airbnb's disregard of occupancy laws, to 2008-era banking scandals) of the upper class (successful entrepreneurs) is oppression against the lower classes. Usually, this is taken care of through the courts, wherein the judicial system punishes people for crimes -- again, an act of violence. However, in the absence of punishment or a judiciary aligned with the interests of oppressors, the oppressed are morally justified in enacting punishment and responding to violence in kind. [1] Paulo Freire, Pedagogy of the Oppressed, 1967.
        libertyEQ 9y ago
        Being against socialism is not violence. The idea that the taxi medallion system was anything but a cartel is very crude. I'm not even sure what kind of person writes these comments that are in stark disagreement to the founding principles of the USA. Authoritarian governments are the exact violence the USA was founded to get away from.
        pjc50 9y ago
        > Authoritarian governments are the exact violence the USA was founded to get away from You might want to ask a black person or an Indian for their perspective on this.
        libertyEQ 9y ago
        I don't have to "ask an Indian" because my grandfather is on the Dawes Rolls. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Rolls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Rolls
  - msla 9y ago
    Not to mention the ageism.
- ivanech 9y ago
  I doubt anything on HN has ever matched the bullying of r/fatpeoplehate
- toxican 9y ago
  Critical, maybe, but I don't see rampant racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. all over this site like I do on reddit. People are also generally a lot more snarky and sarcastic on reddit than they are here, which could be perceived as 'bullying' if you're just looking to have fun discussions. But of course with reddit, it's 100% up to you to make it good. Find the right communities, ditch the wrong ones, and you're going to have a great time.
  - eropple 9y ago
    > I don't see rampant racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. all over this site "All over," no--it's mostly, though not always, contained to the topics at hand. Most times that Sheryl Sandberg or Ellen Pao or any group that would maybe like to encourage people who are not dudes to learn to code and maybe get a job come up, this has historically bubbled up. Similarly, topics that do not revolve around white (and occasionally South and/or East Asian) men usually come with a sidebar of pseudoscience-cloaked racism or the blurfing of "equality of opportunity" with its implications of inferiority. It has certainly improved since 'dang and 'sctb took the reins. And you can't be an overt meme-turd here and get away with it. But adjusting one's pince-nez and well-actuallying into sexism and racism isn't really better, and on that HN has a ways to go.
- wcarron 9y ago
  Would disagree. HN is critical in the sense that people actually debate a significant amount of the time instead of replying with memes. Calling spades what they are isn't, in my opinion, equivalent to being needlessly critical. As for bullying, I think we can all agree that vote-brigading, doxxing, trolling, and racist speech are far more prevalent on reddit than HN. /r/fatpeoplehate, /r/the_donald, /r/roastme, /r/murderedbywords being some good examples, not to mention incels and redpillers.
chmod775 9y ago
Yes. If advertisers aren't ready for the whole spectrum of what humanity has to offer, they aren't ready for life and should probably stay at home, lock their doors, bar their windows, and cease all contact with the outside world. Also what Tuff said applies more readily to various chans, less to reddit, which usually has more civilized discussions - A natural by-product of trying to piss off preferably less than 50% of the userbase with each post.
- TorKlingberg 9y ago
  "Be ready for" is one thing, but do you want your ads right next to it?
  - chmod775 9y ago
    Don't put your ads on the wrong subreddit then. In the physical world you don't have to put ads directly next to the KKK, but if there's still some sort of demonstration passing your ad nobody is going to blame you for it there either. Also the notion that the same people who use a website are going to blame an advertiser for advertising next to content that is the norm there, is just weird.
tomjen3 9y ago
He makes the same mistake everybody else does: reddit is not one place. /r/news is not /r/dogs, is not /r/the_donald, is not /r/randomActsOfChristmas is not /r/kotlin. And yes their blindside is a persistent market failure, that I sadly cannot take advantage of.

seibelj 9y ago

I would say HN is far more critical and bullying than reddit, but then again we aren’t trying to lure advertisers

pjc50 9y ago
HN is more critical but less bullying. It rarely tolerates open crude abuse, but has a huge blind spot around "intellectual" bullying such as ""scientific"" racism.
- wanderingjew 9y ago
  HN has a problem with the libertarian hellscape ideology of laws being an impediment to wealth. I would argue this oppressive ideology is far more violent than the dross that's skimmed off Reddit. Additionally, HN is far, far less intelligent than its users would have you believe, but that circles back to the edgelord libertarianism again.
  - thescribe 9y ago
    Ok so I get that you disagree but how is it violence?
    - wanderingjew 9y ago
      Oppression is violence [1]. The willful disregard of laws enacted by a democratically elected legislature (from Uber's disregard of Taxi Medallions, airbnb's disregard of occupancy laws, to 2008-era banking scandals) of the upper class (successful entrepreneurs) is oppression against the lower classes. Usually, this is taken care of through the courts, wherein the judicial system punishes people for crimes -- again, an act of violence. However, in the absence of punishment or a judiciary aligned with the interests of oppressors, the oppressed are morally justified in enacting punishment and responding to violence in kind. [1] Paulo Freire, Pedagogy of the Oppressed, 1967.
      - libertyEQ 9y ago
        Being against socialism is not violence. The idea that the taxi medallion system was anything but a cartel is very crude. I'm not even sure what kind of person writes these comments that are in stark disagreement to the founding principles of the USA. Authoritarian governments are the exact violence the USA was founded to get away from.
        pjc50 9y ago
        > Authoritarian governments are the exact violence the USA was founded to get away from You might want to ask a black person or an Indian for their perspective on this.
        libertyEQ 9y ago
        I don't have to "ask an Indian" because my grandfather is on the Dawes Rolls. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Rolls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Rolls
- msla 9y ago
  Not to mention the ageism.
ivanech 9y ago
I doubt anything on HN has ever matched the bullying of r/fatpeoplehate
toxican 9y ago
Critical, maybe, but I don't see rampant racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. all over this site like I do on reddit. People are also generally a lot more snarky and sarcastic on reddit than they are here, which could be perceived as 'bullying' if you're just looking to have fun discussions. But of course with reddit, it's 100% up to you to make it good. Find the right communities, ditch the wrong ones, and you're going to have a great time.
- eropple 9y ago
  > I don't see rampant racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. all over this site "All over," no--it's mostly, though not always, contained to the topics at hand. Most times that Sheryl Sandberg or Ellen Pao or any group that would maybe like to encourage people who are not dudes to learn to code and maybe get a job come up, this has historically bubbled up. Similarly, topics that do not revolve around white (and occasionally South and/or East Asian) men usually come with a sidebar of pseudoscience-cloaked racism or the blurfing of "equality of opportunity" with its implications of inferiority. It has certainly improved since 'dang and 'sctb took the reins. And you can't be an overt meme-turd here and get away with it. But adjusting one's pince-nez and well-actuallying into sexism and racism isn't really better, and on that HN has a ways to go.
wcarron 9y ago
Would disagree. HN is critical in the sense that people actually debate a significant amount of the time instead of replying with memes. Calling spades what they are isn't, in my opinion, equivalent to being needlessly critical. As for bullying, I think we can all agree that vote-brigading, doxxing, trolling, and racist speech are far more prevalent on reddit than HN. /r/fatpeoplehate, /r/the_donald, /r/roastme, /r/murderedbywords being some good examples, not to mention incels and redpillers.

chmod775 9y ago

Yes. If advertisers aren't ready for the whole spectrum of what humanity has to offer, they aren't ready for life and should probably stay at home, lock their doors, bar their windows, and cease all contact with the outside world. Also what Tuff said applies more readily to various chans, less to reddit, which usually has more civilized discussions - A natural by-product of trying to piss off preferably less than 50% of the userbase with each post.

TorKlingberg 9y ago
"Be ready for" is one thing, but do you want your ads right next to it?
- chmod775 9y ago
  Don't put your ads on the wrong subreddit then. In the physical world you don't have to put ads directly next to the KKK, but if there's still some sort of demonstration passing your ad nobody is going to blame you for it there either. Also the notion that the same people who use a website are going to blame an advertiser for advertising next to content that is the norm there, is just weird.

tomjen3 9y ago

He makes the same mistake everybody else does: reddit is not one place. /r/news is not /r/dogs, is not /r/the_donald, is not /r/randomActsOfChristmas is not /r/kotlin. And yes their blindside is a persistent market failure, that I sadly cannot take advantage of.