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Libertarianism (at least, to me) is about not stopping people from doing something that isn't harming others. There's nothing at all morally or ethically bankr
by jstanley 9y ago
Libertarianism (at least, to me) is about not stopping people from doing something that isn't harming others.
There's nothing at all morally or ethically bankrupt about it. If anything, libertarianism holds higher moral and ethical ground than any other ideology.
- knieveltech 9y agoHahaha that argument hinges on not harming others. Rent seeking and hoarding demonstrably harm others. Are we pretending those aren't pillars of capitalism?
- testvox 9y agoSure but capitalism isn't libertarianism. Libertarians tend to hate rent seeking and hording if you spent any time learning about them you would know those are two issues they take very seriously.
- knieveltech 9y agoFascinating (no sarcasm). Through what mechanism do libertarians propose to prevent these behaviors?
- Anderkent 9y agoUsually by lowering the barrier of entry due to regulatory restrictions that back 90% of rent seeking.
- knieveltech 9y agoHow do they support the rationale that rent-seeking is enabled by "regulatory restrictions" and not the near-impossibility of competing with a pile of capital several orders of magnitude larger than yours?
- Anderkent 9y agoHow do you square 'impossibility of competing' with rent-seeking? Rent seeking is when one obtains economic gain without creating wealth; if big capital is outcompeting you, aren't they providing more value than you for less? Examples of rent seeking that come to my mind are things like obligatory licenses (license owners can charge higher prices because possible competitors are shut out of the market); excessive zoning (property owners extract value because no new property construction is allowed); subsidised production. What's an example of rent-seeking caused by someone having a pile of capital much bigger than small companies, that does not happen through lobbying for regulation?
- knieveltech 9y agoWould you like to review the pharmaceutical industry or any of the several instances Microsoft has been hit with anti-trust lawsuits? Or review what's happened to the retail sector in the wake of Walmart and Amazon rising to primacy? Two of those cases involve no special regulation guarding the parent companies. The other is an entire industry only barely held in check by what regulation already exists. Oh yeah, I almost forgot about Food Lion. They have a multi-decade track record of opening new stores in areas served by smaller chains, operating at a loss until the competition is driven out of business, then dialing their prices up.
- leereeves 9y agoAmazon is rent seeking?
- knieveltech 9y agoDid I say that?
- leereeves 9y agoAmazon was part of your reply to: > What's an example of rent-seeking caused by someone having a pile of capital much bigger than small companies, that does not happen through lobbying for regulation? It seems like you mixed the discussion of rent seeking with a separate discussion of the competitive advantage of big companies.
- jstanley 9y agoYes, those aren't pillars of capitalism. Capitalism is about voluntary transactions that are mutually-beneficial.
- knieveltech 9y agoIf you believe that you're going to be sad when you learn about how the financial industry and housing markets work.
- buttcoinslol 9y agoThe problem is nearly all actions we take affect other people. Placing profit and property rights above human considerations is morally and ethically bankrupt. Also, what actions are you prohibited from taking now that you could do under a libertarian system?
- testvox 9y agoBraiding hair without a license.
- jstanley 9y agoPaying a friend to perform unlicensed dentistry on me. Driving a car on the public highway without insurance. Buying some marijuana to smoke in the privacy of my own home. Buying scrap metal from a stranger without taking down his ID. It's mainly (but not exclusively) things that are correlated with wrongdoing, but don't actually harm anyone in and of themselves. I'm all for punishing people who are doing harm (e.g. in the above cases: pretending to be a competent dentist when you're not, or running into someone's car and not paying them for the damage, or robbing some shops to pay for your marijuana, or stealing copper to sell for scrap), but I don't like punishing innocent people who are doing no harm, merely because they're trying to do something that is also done as a byproduct of harm.
- buttcoinslol 9y agoThere are laws against all of these things but people do them anyways. The majority of people purchasing drugs on the black market are never caught. I'm sure your buddy could pull a tooth for you if you are both smart enough not to tell anyone. You can buy scrap metal in private transactions for cash without ID. Driving on the public highway with no insurance and no way to financially settle any potential accident is not an innocent person doing no harm. They're externalizing their responsibility onto whoever they collide with. I know this is an ideological discussion and not a practical one, but my response to that is a lot of laws are in place because the harm the bad actors do when there are no consequences outweighs the potential benefit gained from a lack of regulation.