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Except it isn't meaningless, libertarianism is morally and ethically bankrupt, not to mention wildly impractical. Most of these other ideologies account for col
by buttcoinslol 9y ago
Except it isn't meaningless, libertarianism is morally and ethically bankrupt, not to mention wildly impractical. Most of these other ideologies account for collective effort for the greater good and a social safety net, which are two of the hundreds of things that current governments have that libertarians would like to dismantle.
- Anderkent 9y agoYou confuse anarchocapitalism with libertarianism. Something like 90% of libertarians I speak with are in favour of social safety nets (guaranteed basic income comes up a lot) and progressive taxation. Everyone believes in collective effort for the greater good. People just disagree about the best way to achieve this collective effort.
- buttcoinslol 9y agoFair enough, modern libertarian ideas about social safety nets may be more progressive than I realized. I'm surprised a Guaranteed Basic Income is advocated for by libertarians, but it's an idea I would like to see tested, I think it would cut down on a lot of the anger and other negative emotions associated with poverty that tend to keep people impoverished. On the second point, that's true. The same or similar outcomes can be achieved with different policies/incentives.
- jstanley 9y agoLibertarianism (at least, to me) is about not stopping people from doing something that isn't harming others. There's nothing at all morally or ethically bankrupt about it. If anything, libertarianism holds higher moral and ethical ground than any other ideology.
- knieveltech 9y agoHahaha that argument hinges on not harming others. Rent seeking and hoarding demonstrably harm others. Are we pretending those aren't pillars of capitalism?
- testvox 9y agoSure but capitalism isn't libertarianism. Libertarians tend to hate rent seeking and hording if you spent any time learning about them you would know those are two issues they take very seriously.
- knieveltech 9y agoFascinating (no sarcasm). Through what mechanism do libertarians propose to prevent these behaviors?
- Anderkent 9y agoUsually by lowering the barrier of entry due to regulatory restrictions that back 90% of rent seeking.
- knieveltech 9y agoHow do they support the rationale that rent-seeking is enabled by "regulatory restrictions" and not the near-impossibility of competing with a pile of capital several orders of magnitude larger than yours?
- Anderkent 9y agoHow do you square 'impossibility of competing' with rent-seeking? Rent seeking is when one obtains economic gain without creating wealth; if big capital is outcompeting you, aren't they providing more value than you for less? Examples of rent seeking that come to my mind are things like obligatory licenses (license owners can charge higher prices because possible competitors are shut out of the market); excessive zoning (property owners extract value because no new property construction is allowed); subsidised production. What's an example of rent-seeking caused by someone having a pile of capital much bigger than small companies, that does not happen through lobbying for regulation?
- 9y ago
- buttcoinslol 9y agoThe problem is nearly all actions we take affect other people. Placing profit and property rights above human considerations is morally and ethically bankrupt. Also, what actions are you prohibited from taking now that you could do under a libertarian system?
- testvox 9y agoBraiding hair without a license.
- jstanley 9y agoPaying a friend to perform unlicensed dentistry on me. Driving a car on the public highway without insurance. Buying some marijuana to smoke in the privacy of my own home. Buying scrap metal from a stranger without taking down his ID. It's mainly (but not exclusively) things that are correlated with wrongdoing, but don't actually harm anyone in and of themselves. I'm all for punishing people who are doing harm (e.g. in the above cases: pretending to be a competent dentist when you're not, or running into someone's car and not paying them for the damage, or robbing some shops to pay for your marijuana, or stealing copper to sell for scrap), but I don't like punishing innocent people who are doing no harm, merely because they're trying to do something that is also done as a byproduct of harm.
- buttcoinslol 9y agoThere are laws against all of these things but people do them anyways. The majority of people purchasing drugs on the black market are never caught. I'm sure your buddy could pull a tooth for you if you are both smart enough not to tell anyone. You can buy scrap metal in private transactions for cash without ID. Driving on the public highway with no insurance and no way to financially settle any potential accident is not an innocent person doing no harm. They're externalizing their responsibility onto whoever they collide with. I know this is an ideological discussion and not a practical one, but my response to that is a lot of laws are in place because the harm the bad actors do when there are no consequences outweighs the potential benefit gained from a lack of regulation.