4 ms·

Users are extraordinarily stupid. Not having the possibility to control things is a Good Thing.

ekianjo 9y ago
No, they are uneducated about the complexity of what they are dealing with, big difference. Not stupid and unable to learn.
- ryanlol 9y ago
  Do you think it’s a Good Thing when users lose all of their data to WannaCry or have their bank accounts emptied? I do not. The vast majority of users simply do not benefit from being exposed to such complexity, it certainly shouldn’t be the default.
  - BeefySwain 9y ago
    You can both lock down the UI to minimize user error, and allow informed users to have complete control of the system. Think safety locks on pill bottles or cabinets.
    - macintux 9y ago
      There are plenty of people who can't be trusted not to make poor decisions about technology they don't understand. Safety locks aren't enough.
      - njarboe 9y ago
        Live and learn?
        ryanlol 9y ago
        Not a good approach when designing products for the masses.
jasonkostempski 9y ago
People are extraordinarily stupid. And selfish. And greedy. And all sorts of other bad things. Giving control to other people isn't any better.
- ryanlol 9y ago
  Would you rather have your grandmother do her banking on a windows laptop or a device running iOS?
  - kuschku 9y ago
    On a laptop, ofc. All the secure stuff happens on external hardware, and the laptop at least allows using it. Most banks in Germany allow HBCI, so you get an external chip reader, any HBCI-compliant software – be it StarMoney, or GnuCash/KMyMoney with the HBCI plugin – configure your account, and authorize API accesses via the card and PIN on an external keypad (which shows what you’re authorizing on its own display). This is the average way a consumer does online banking, and it’s much more secure than on iOS.
    - ryanlol 9y ago
      >This is the average way a consumer does online banking, and it’s much more secure than on iOS. lol. At least on iOS they can trust what they see. On desktop they can't, https://securityintelligence.com/tatanga-attack-exposes-chiptan-weaknesses/ https://securityintelligence.com/tatanga-attack-exposes-chip... All of your security theater falls apart when the device is infected with malware that can make the bank site say anything. On iOS your banks app/site will never ever lie to you, if it does it'll almost certainly be the banks fault and not the users.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - germanier 9y ago
        The idea is to get a dedicated device[0] which uses your bank card to sign the transaction and shows transaction details on its own display. That's probably even harder to infect than iOS. While German banks support that almost universally, hardly anybody uses it. [0]: https://shop.reiner-sct.com/chipkartenleser-fuer-die-sicherheitsklasse-3/cyberjack-secoder-usb https://shop.reiner-sct.com/chipkartenleser-fuer-die-sicherh...

No, they are uneducated about the complexity of what they are dealing with, big difference. Not stupid and unable to learn.

ryanlol 9y ago
Do you think it’s a Good Thing when users lose all of their data to WannaCry or have their bank accounts emptied? I do not. The vast majority of users simply do not benefit from being exposed to such complexity, it certainly shouldn’t be the default.
- BeefySwain 9y ago
  You can both lock down the UI to minimize user error, and allow informed users to have complete control of the system. Think safety locks on pill bottles or cabinets.
  - macintux 9y ago
    There are plenty of people who can't be trusted not to make poor decisions about technology they don't understand. Safety locks aren't enough.
    - njarboe 9y ago
      Live and learn?
      - ryanlol 9y ago
        Not a good approach when designing products for the masses.

jasonkostempski 9y ago

People are extraordinarily stupid. And selfish. And greedy. And all sorts of other bad things. Giving control to other people isn't any better.

ryanlol 9y ago
Would you rather have your grandmother do her banking on a windows laptop or a device running iOS?
- kuschku 9y ago
  On a laptop, ofc. All the secure stuff happens on external hardware, and the laptop at least allows using it. Most banks in Germany allow HBCI, so you get an external chip reader, any HBCI-compliant software – be it StarMoney, or GnuCash/KMyMoney with the HBCI plugin – configure your account, and authorize API accesses via the card and PIN on an external keypad (which shows what you’re authorizing on its own display). This is the average way a consumer does online banking, and it’s much more secure than on iOS.
  - ryanlol 9y ago
    >This is the average way a consumer does online banking, and it’s much more secure than on iOS. lol. At least on iOS they can trust what they see. On desktop they can't, https://securityintelligence.com/tatanga-attack-exposes-chiptan-weaknesses/ https://securityintelligence.com/tatanga-attack-exposes-chip... All of your security theater falls apart when the device is infected with malware that can make the bank site say anything. On iOS your banks app/site will never ever lie to you, if it does it'll almost certainly be the banks fault and not the users.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - germanier 9y ago
      The idea is to get a dedicated device[0] which uses your bank card to sign the transaction and shows transaction details on its own display. That's probably even harder to infect than iOS. While German banks support that almost universally, hardly anybody uses it. [0]: https://shop.reiner-sct.com/chipkartenleser-fuer-die-sicherheitsklasse-3/cyberjack-secoder-usb https://shop.reiner-sct.com/chipkartenleser-fuer-die-sicherh...