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I'm a bit disappointed by this. I knew that Charles Stross is fiercely against Bitcoin, but I thought he understood the technology better. I'm surprised he writ

I'm a bit disappointed by this. I knew that Charles Stross is fiercely against Bitcoin, but I thought he understood the technology better. I'm surprised he writes this: > we're going to run out of new BTC to mine sooner or later as it's not a question of "sooner or later", the supply schedule is fixed and well-known. But even more: > At that point, the incentive for mining (a process essential for reconciling the public ledgers) will disappear and the currency will ... will what? ... will be driven by mining fees. Or maybe it won't, which is also a reasonable guess. But suggesting that we have no idea and no plan is disingenious. Also: > if, as I think, BTC doesn't deliver, then the bubble will eventually burst. It's not necessarily an all-or-nothing thing. Is 10'000 USD overvalued? Maybe, but that wouldn't mean that the actual value is 0 USD, only that it's somewhere between 0 and 10'000. And: > A working distributed cryptocurrency model is inimical to the interests of billionaire monopolists who want to get rich by imposing rent-seeking practices [...followed by regulatory phantasies] I also think this argument is mistaken. The easiest way of rent-seeking for billionaire monopolists would be to buy Bitcoin and just wait and reap the rents.

nwah1 9y ago
>will be driven by mining fees. Or maybe it won't errm. >The easiest way of rent-seeking for billionaire monopolists would be to buy Bitcoin and just wait and reap the rents. Pretty much all of them realize that the speculative bubble is built on nothing.
- tom_mellior 9y ago
  > errm. Please elaborate your objection? I'm happy to reiterate that it's clear that we can't predict the future, but that it's intellectually dishonest to suggest that we don't have plans when in fact we do. (It's fine to criticize the plans, but that's not what Charlie did.) > Pretty much all of them realize that the speculative bubble is built on nothing. That's no reason not to profit from it while it lasts, if you're a rent-seeking billionaire who can afford to lose their investment. It's strange to suggest that greedy rent-seekers would not be greedy in this one specific instance.
  - nwah1 9y ago
    >Please elaborate your objection? I was just noting that you didn't seem to have an especially clearer picture than Charlie did, while claiming he was wrong to say the future was unclear. >It's strange to suggest that greedy rent-seekers would not be greedy in this one specific instance. You don't seem to understand what rent-seeking is. Rent-seeking is when you seek out particular privileges that enable you to gain an advantage. A "sure thing" if you will. By controlling asymmetric information, the levers of government, cornering the market, or controlling exclusive rights over naturally scarce opportunities. They are greedy, but not stupid. A greedy person may play slot machines, but would not be intelligently directing their avarice. This is ultimately what you are suggesting they do.
    - tom_mellior 9y ago
      > I was just noting that you didn't seem to have an especially clearer picture than Charlie did I'm not sure what to tell you if you don't see a difference between "there are clear plans for the future, but of course plans are no guarantee for what will happen in the year 2100" (my point) and "there is no plan for the future, nobody has any idea how to incentivize mining, what a bunch of idiots" (Charlie's statement). In fact, the plans do not only exist as plans. They are implemented in software that is deployed on a huge network of machines.
hossbeast 9y ago
Yeah, I was disappointed by that too. "we're going to run out of new BTC to mine sooner or later" Not for about 100 years.
- tehwalrus 9y ago
  So, about the same time we'll run out of fossil fuels we're burning to mine them?
mcculley 9y ago
I also don’t understand Stross’ blanket characterization of bitcoin as only being useful to libertatians. I would think the citizens of a proper socialist government would also want to use money that can’t be devalued. It would make very clear what is being spent by the government versus national bank systems which can achieve things by just devaluing currency.
- rothbardrand 9y ago
  Exactly, its' hugely popular in Venezuela and Zimbabwe and other places where government messes with peoples' money. But then, remember, Charles thinks that pepe is a nazi symbol! He's not exactly among the rational.

nwah1 9y ago

>will be driven by mining fees. Or maybe it won't errm. >The easiest way of rent-seeking for billionaire monopolists would be to buy Bitcoin and just wait and reap the rents. Pretty much all of them realize that the speculative bubble is built on nothing.

tom_mellior 9y ago
> errm. Please elaborate your objection? I'm happy to reiterate that it's clear that we can't predict the future, but that it's intellectually dishonest to suggest that we don't have plans when in fact we do. (It's fine to criticize the plans, but that's not what Charlie did.) > Pretty much all of them realize that the speculative bubble is built on nothing. That's no reason not to profit from it while it lasts, if you're a rent-seeking billionaire who can afford to lose their investment. It's strange to suggest that greedy rent-seekers would not be greedy in this one specific instance.
- nwah1 9y ago
  >Please elaborate your objection? I was just noting that you didn't seem to have an especially clearer picture than Charlie did, while claiming he was wrong to say the future was unclear. >It's strange to suggest that greedy rent-seekers would not be greedy in this one specific instance. You don't seem to understand what rent-seeking is. Rent-seeking is when you seek out particular privileges that enable you to gain an advantage. A "sure thing" if you will. By controlling asymmetric information, the levers of government, cornering the market, or controlling exclusive rights over naturally scarce opportunities. They are greedy, but not stupid. A greedy person may play slot machines, but would not be intelligently directing their avarice. This is ultimately what you are suggesting they do.
  - tom_mellior 9y ago
    > I was just noting that you didn't seem to have an especially clearer picture than Charlie did I'm not sure what to tell you if you don't see a difference between "there are clear plans for the future, but of course plans are no guarantee for what will happen in the year 2100" (my point) and "there is no plan for the future, nobody has any idea how to incentivize mining, what a bunch of idiots" (Charlie's statement). In fact, the plans do not only exist as plans. They are implemented in software that is deployed on a huge network of machines.

hossbeast 9y ago

Yeah, I was disappointed by that too. "we're going to run out of new BTC to mine sooner or later" Not for about 100 years.

tehwalrus 9y ago
So, about the same time we'll run out of fossil fuels we're burning to mine them?

mcculley 9y ago

I also don’t understand Stross’ blanket characterization of bitcoin as only being useful to libertatians. I would think the citizens of a proper socialist government would also want to use money that can’t be devalued. It would make very clear what is being spent by the government versus national bank systems which can achieve things by just devaluing currency.

rothbardrand 9y ago
Exactly, its' hugely popular in Venezuela and Zimbabwe and other places where government messes with peoples' money. But then, remember, Charles thinks that pepe is a nazi symbol! He's not exactly among the rational.