7 ms·

Recently switched to Ubuntu for this reason. So far I've been very impressed with the strides they've made with the GUI and overall usability.

tmikaeld 9y ago
Same here, been using Windows since 3.11 and MacOS the past 6 years. But when i installed Ubuntu 17.04 on my new HP laptop, i was really impressed and haven't needed to switch yet.
- SubiculumCode 9y ago
  When the recovery partition got corrupted on my teenage niece's nonfunctional Win10 laptop, I fixed her computer by installing Ubuntu Mate. She's been using it for over a year now and loves it. If a teen girl likes her Linux desktop, then things are doing pretty well.
MichaelGG 9y ago
Ubuntu has a bunch of telemetry stuff. And non-removable Amazon ad/apps that you've got to copy and paste commands into the system prompt to fix. Let's not pretend that if Linux ever got to the desktop in any meaningful way that these boxes wouldn't ship with everything including kernel modules to do "value added" nonsense.
- BeefySwain 9y ago
  Can I recompile Windows without any telemetry? Can I build my own Windows OS from scratch or install a pre-built one from a person or organization I trust? You are correct, that pre-built machines are almost never trustworthy. That is not really important though, in that the very nature of GPLed Linux makes a huge difference to the user in terms of control of their machine. This false-equivalence FUD is not compelling.
- Operyl 9y ago
  That’s the major difference, you can uninstall a package and it’s fixed. Big whoop compared to Microsoft.
  - rbanffy 9y ago
    You can always uninstall Windows and install a decent OS in its place.
- ekianjo 9y ago
  > Ubuntu has a bunch of telemetry stuff. And non-removable Amazon ad/apps that you've got to copy and paste commands into the system prompt to fix. This is blatantly false. All Amazon stuff in Ubuntu is now opt-in only.
  - Skuzzzy 9y ago
    I did a fresh install of Ubuntu desktop the other day and there are Amazon icons on the sidebar by default. I didn't opt in unless it was maliciously bundled with another option.
    - smichel17 9y ago
      There is a conflation of issues here. There's two separate Amazon things: (1) The launcher on the dock by default -- annoying but not subversive -- and (2) search integration, where your local searches would also query Amazon, which used to be enabled by default -- a privacy issue which caused some controversy a few years back. Great grandparent was talking about (2), specifically, so in that context I understood the grandparent to mean only it. However, the wording was certainly unclear if you weren't familiar with the controversy.
      - MichaelGG 9y ago
        And not just downvoted but flagged... Anyways yeah, I tried Ubuntu out and the Amazon icon is there and isn't easily removed. Plus Unbuntu has auto-on telemetry or crash reporting as far as I understand.
- simion314 9y ago
  This is false.
- da_chicken 9y ago
  While the Ubuntu telemetry stuff is now opt-in, your point still stands. What you describe is exactly what Android has become.
- throw2016 9y ago
  Why this scaremongering? It's just an amazon affliate link. A misguided attempt to make some revenue by canonical, who are broke and recently had to lay off a significant portion of employees.
  - cat199 9y ago
    Why this scaremongering? It's just a remote telemetry app. A misguided attempt to make some revenue by HP, who are broke and recently had to lay off a significant portion of employees.
- andrepd 9y ago
  If you don't like Ubuntu feel free to install any other Linux distro that doesn't include that stuff. I suggest Linux Mint.
- nileshtrivedi 9y ago
  > Let's not pretend that if Linux ever got to the desktop in any meaningful way that these boxes wouldn't ship with everything including kernel modules to do "value added" nonsense. Windows and Android are able to do these these things because of the lock-in they have on application developers. Apps made for Ubuntu run fine on other Linux distros so Canonical doesn't have the kind of control and lock-in which MS/Google/Apple. This equivalence is therefore dubious.
  - ori_b 9y ago
    > Apps made for Ubuntu run fine on other Linux distros so Canonical doesn't have the kind of control and lock-in which MS/Google/Apple. Yes, that is the bug that these value adds would fix.
  - MichaelGG 9y ago
    If Ubuntu started shipping on a lot of devices, the HP and other OEMs would start shipping value-adds from third parties as well. The title of this thread is "HP installs system-slowing spyware on its PCs". This by no means would be Windows-specific if HP shipped any serious quantity of consumer Ubuntu boxes.
- msla 9y ago
  This is an old troll in new clothing. Back in the 1990s, people would claim that if Linux were used by anyone at all, it would be as buggy and insecure as Windows 95 was. Because bugs magically pop up due to use. Now it's claiming telemetry magically pops up due to use. Plus ça change, I suppose.
  - greenhouse_gas 9y ago
    On the other hand, the largest Linux distro by an order of magnitude (Android) is: 1. Locked down (so that you frequently can't even update to a newer release). 2. Has telemetry. 3. Has security bugs.
    - msla 9y ago
      Android is only a "Linux distro" if you deliberately ignore all context in how people use that phrase.
      - sverige 9y ago
        The main context needed is that Android is only a "Linux distro" when Linux fans talk about the installed base of Linux.
      - greenhouse_gas 9y ago
        No. I know what a Linux distro look like. I'm just saying that the only Linux that could have conquered the world, through HP, Compaq or Dell pre-installing Linux on the Desktop, would have looked more like Android than Debian. Actually, it would have been worse, since at least Google is mandating some kind of inter-operability between OEMs together.
- morganvachon 9y ago
  Please don't spread FUD. I'm not a huge fan of Ubuntu but be honest, its so-called telemetry drama from several years ago never required the command line to turn off, it was a switch in Unity's graphical settings app. Since that controversy it has always shipped opt-in, and non-Unity versions of Ubuntu never had the issue to start with. There are no Amazon "ads" apart from a link on the dock that is removed with a right-click, again no command line wizardry required. Please don't lie.
  - MichaelGG 9y ago
    This is incorrect. Every time I click the Unity button, the first icon is Amazon. No way to remove it that I can see. Just Launch. Please step me through clicking the top right Unity button to see all apps, then removing Amazon via the UI only. The default in Ubuntu is to send crash reports: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport
    - morganvachon 9y ago
      It's a .desktop file just like any other icon in Unity. It's at /usr/share/applications/ubuntu-amazon-default.desktop; right click, delete, just like you would any other .desktop file.
srcmap 9y ago
I use HP laptop. With latest Windows, it is manageable. One can use windows firewall to block out going connections on per app base. 1) Use SystemInternal's process explorer and track all network connections: (As admin: Add column to track the network tx, rx counts) https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/process-explorer https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/proc... 2) When I see some app, system that connect to network which I think it should not. I just block their network connections with Windows Firewall or uninstall those app. There is a "netsh advfirewall firewall" command that can do this from command line. 3) BTW this works very well with Windows' own service too. I block svchost.exe, Edge, SerchIndex, etc from accessing internet. svchost.exe is allowed to access local subnet for file, print sharing. When I feel like upgrade to to latest version windows 10. I turn off the firewall rules for a few hours to allow the update to go thru. 4) Only Firefox and Chrome in my windows system are allowed to connect to internet full time. The CPU usage is normally < 15% and most of the time < 10% even when playing youtube @ 1080 resolution. The latest Firefox Quantum has less CPU usage and faster also. I love it. 5) The WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) is getting better - X, xfce4-termnial now working good enough for me. I like accessing the Ubuntu shell in windows environment without the overhead of Virtualbox.
- notsrg 9y ago
  That's a lot of work to make software you paid for not spy on you...
  - m_fayer 9y ago
    Indeed, and I hate it. I have a beloved 2015 MBP that I'm trying to keep alive, but it's becoming a little underpowered and it's not upgradeable. New MBPs are a non-starter with the port and keyboard situation and my coworkers all hate them. Then I have a maxed out XPS 13 which is a very nice and capable machine that suits me completely, except that it has a malicious OS that I have to constantly fight. And Linux doesn't support a lot of the tools I need. So..... what's the solution here?
    - soperj 9y ago

tmikaeld 9y ago

Same here, been using Windows since 3.11 and MacOS the past 6 years. But when i installed Ubuntu 17.04 on my new HP laptop, i was really impressed and haven't needed to switch yet.

SubiculumCode 9y ago
When the recovery partition got corrupted on my teenage niece's nonfunctional Win10 laptop, I fixed her computer by installing Ubuntu Mate. She's been using it for over a year now and loves it. If a teen girl likes her Linux desktop, then things are doing pretty well.

MichaelGG 9y ago

Ubuntu has a bunch of telemetry stuff. And non-removable Amazon ad/apps that you've got to copy and paste commands into the system prompt to fix. Let's not pretend that if Linux ever got to the desktop in any meaningful way that these boxes wouldn't ship with everything including kernel modules to do "value added" nonsense.

BeefySwain 9y ago
Can I recompile Windows without any telemetry? Can I build my own Windows OS from scratch or install a pre-built one from a person or organization I trust? You are correct, that pre-built machines are almost never trustworthy. That is not really important though, in that the very nature of GPLed Linux makes a huge difference to the user in terms of control of their machine. This false-equivalence FUD is not compelling.
Operyl 9y ago
That’s the major difference, you can uninstall a package and it’s fixed. Big whoop compared to Microsoft.
- rbanffy 9y ago
  You can always uninstall Windows and install a decent OS in its place.
ekianjo 9y ago
> Ubuntu has a bunch of telemetry stuff. And non-removable Amazon ad/apps that you've got to copy and paste commands into the system prompt to fix. This is blatantly false. All Amazon stuff in Ubuntu is now opt-in only.
- Skuzzzy 9y ago
  I did a fresh install of Ubuntu desktop the other day and there are Amazon icons on the sidebar by default. I didn't opt in unless it was maliciously bundled with another option.
  - smichel17 9y ago
    There is a conflation of issues here. There's two separate Amazon things: (1) The launcher on the dock by default -- annoying but not subversive -- and (2) search integration, where your local searches would also query Amazon, which used to be enabled by default -- a privacy issue which caused some controversy a few years back. Great grandparent was talking about (2), specifically, so in that context I understood the grandparent to mean only it. However, the wording was certainly unclear if you weren't familiar with the controversy.
    - MichaelGG 9y ago
      And not just downvoted but flagged... Anyways yeah, I tried Ubuntu out and the Amazon icon is there and isn't easily removed. Plus Unbuntu has auto-on telemetry or crash reporting as far as I understand.
simion314 9y ago
This is false.
da_chicken 9y ago
While the Ubuntu telemetry stuff is now opt-in, your point still stands. What you describe is exactly what Android has become.
throw2016 9y ago
Why this scaremongering? It's just an amazon affliate link. A misguided attempt to make some revenue by canonical, who are broke and recently had to lay off a significant portion of employees.
- cat199 9y ago
  Why this scaremongering? It's just a remote telemetry app. A misguided attempt to make some revenue by HP, who are broke and recently had to lay off a significant portion of employees.
andrepd 9y ago
If you don't like Ubuntu feel free to install any other Linux distro that doesn't include that stuff. I suggest Linux Mint.
nileshtrivedi 9y ago
> Let's not pretend that if Linux ever got to the desktop in any meaningful way that these boxes wouldn't ship with everything including kernel modules to do "value added" nonsense. Windows and Android are able to do these these things because of the lock-in they have on application developers. Apps made for Ubuntu run fine on other Linux distros so Canonical doesn't have the kind of control and lock-in which MS/Google/Apple. This equivalence is therefore dubious.
- ori_b 9y ago
  > Apps made for Ubuntu run fine on other Linux distros so Canonical doesn't have the kind of control and lock-in which MS/Google/Apple. Yes, that is the bug that these value adds would fix.
- MichaelGG 9y ago
  If Ubuntu started shipping on a lot of devices, the HP and other OEMs would start shipping value-adds from third parties as well. The title of this thread is "HP installs system-slowing spyware on its PCs". This by no means would be Windows-specific if HP shipped any serious quantity of consumer Ubuntu boxes.
msla 9y ago
This is an old troll in new clothing. Back in the 1990s, people would claim that if Linux were used by anyone at all, it would be as buggy and insecure as Windows 95 was. Because bugs magically pop up due to use. Now it's claiming telemetry magically pops up due to use. Plus ça change, I suppose.
- greenhouse_gas 9y ago
  On the other hand, the largest Linux distro by an order of magnitude (Android) is: 1. Locked down (so that you frequently can't even update to a newer release). 2. Has telemetry. 3. Has security bugs.
  - msla 9y ago
    Android is only a "Linux distro" if you deliberately ignore all context in how people use that phrase.
    - sverige 9y ago
      The main context needed is that Android is only a "Linux distro" when Linux fans talk about the installed base of Linux.
    - greenhouse_gas 9y ago
      No. I know what a Linux distro look like. I'm just saying that the only Linux that could have conquered the world, through HP, Compaq or Dell pre-installing Linux on the Desktop, would have looked more like Android than Debian. Actually, it would have been worse, since at least Google is mandating some kind of inter-operability between OEMs together.
morganvachon 9y ago
Please don't spread FUD. I'm not a huge fan of Ubuntu but be honest, its so-called telemetry drama from several years ago never required the command line to turn off, it was a switch in Unity's graphical settings app. Since that controversy it has always shipped opt-in, and non-Unity versions of Ubuntu never had the issue to start with. There are no Amazon "ads" apart from a link on the dock that is removed with a right-click, again no command line wizardry required. Please don't lie.
- MichaelGG 9y ago
  This is incorrect. Every time I click the Unity button, the first icon is Amazon. No way to remove it that I can see. Just Launch. Please step me through clicking the top right Unity button to see all apps, then removing Amazon via the UI only. The default in Ubuntu is to send crash reports: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport
  - morganvachon 9y ago
    It's a .desktop file just like any other icon in Unity. It's at /usr/share/applications/ubuntu-amazon-default.desktop; right click, delete, just like you would any other .desktop file.

srcmap 9y ago

I use HP laptop. With latest Windows, it is manageable. One can use windows firewall to block out going connections on per app base. 1) Use SystemInternal's process explorer and track all network connections: (As admin: Add column to track the network tx, rx counts) https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/process-explorer https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/proc... 2) When I see some app, system that connect to network which I think it should not. I just block their network connections with Windows Firewall or uninstall those app. There is a "netsh advfirewall firewall" command that can do this from command line. 3) BTW this works very well with Windows' own service too. I block svchost.exe, Edge, SerchIndex, etc from accessing internet. svchost.exe is allowed to access local subnet for file, print sharing. When I feel like upgrade to to latest version windows 10. I turn off the firewall rules for a few hours to allow the update to go thru. 4) Only Firefox and Chrome in my windows system are allowed to connect to internet full time. The CPU usage is normally < 15% and most of the time < 10% even when playing youtube @ 1080 resolution. The latest Firefox Quantum has less CPU usage and faster also. I love it. 5) The WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) is getting better - X, xfce4-termnial now working good enough for me. I like accessing the Ubuntu shell in windows environment without the overhead of Virtualbox.

notsrg 9y ago
That's a lot of work to make software you paid for not spy on you...
- m_fayer 9y ago
  Indeed, and I hate it. I have a beloved 2015 MBP that I'm trying to keep alive, but it's becoming a little underpowered and it's not upgradeable. New MBPs are a non-starter with the port and keyboard situation and my coworkers all hate them. Then I have a maxed out XPS 13 which is a very nice and capable machine that suits me completely, except that it has a malicious OS that I have to constantly fight. And Linux doesn't support a lot of the tools I need. So..... what's the solution here?
  - soperj 9y ago