3 ms·

This is (again) why I would not consider owning a computer with a manufacturer-installed OS. Even Linux.

na85 9y ago
I used to be this way but eventually I got to the point where I'm willing to run macos just to have things like working suspend/resume and WiFi/Bluetooth that won't require periodic fiddling when some jerk decides to embrace systemd.
- hiram112 9y ago
  I'm with you. I've been using Linux and Windows for years. When Windows 7 came out, I moved any Linux installs to VMs simply because it still cannot get the things you mentioned working, even on Thinkpads and Dell Precisions, which are far better than most laptops. It was good enough for most development. Work provided me a MBP about 2 years ago, and while it's not perfect, it's good enough. I will not be buying another Windows computer anytime in the future.
- jamespo 9y ago
  Running linux in a VM condemns you to never really understand it
- majewsky 9y ago
  How long ago was this? The last time I had problems with suspend or WiFi, even on brand-new laptops, was maybe 8 years ago.
  - na85 9y ago
    2015
arca_vorago 9y ago
Yep, the EULA/TOS on Dell Ubuntu images is egregious to say the least. In all cases you should reinstall yourself.
- takluyver 9y ago
  Threads like this are always littered with advice to reinstall the OS of any computer you buy, and it troubles me. The vast majority of people have never heard this advice, and would have trouble following it even if they had. Are we saying that only people technically competent enough to install an OS (plus a few close friends and relatives) can have fast, safe computers? Do we think that what we don't accept should be good enough for the rest of them? Or have we already given up any hope of solving it more than individually? I don't have an answer here, but I'd like to see the discussion go beyond 'no probs, reinstall the OS' now and then.
  - WorldMaker 9y ago
    I recommend to all my friends and family Microsoft's Signature Edition program that vets OEMs for clean Windows installs with minimal drivers (it's easiest to buy a Signature Edition at a Microsoft Store, but some OEMs, Best Buys, and Staples can all offer it if you ask nicely). So far that seems to be pretty sustainable advice for non-technical friends and family expecting to use Windows.
  - arca_vorago 9y ago
    Well I agree in general, but to get there you would have to change how vendors operate with customers and between each other, and that doesn't seem to be happening despite all the spyware and other craptastic after effects. If congress wasn't so corrupt I would say regulation might help, but as it stands Kstreet would likely make it worse... Another point of view is I don't like this assumption users can't or won't learn. I don't complain that a TIG welder is only for experts because I can't operate it with no training, because its a tool that requires training, and so is a computer. This is why I think one of the main problems is that schools should not be teaching proprietary systems. (Once again a thing RMS was right about)

na85 9y ago

I used to be this way but eventually I got to the point where I'm willing to run macos just to have things like working suspend/resume and WiFi/Bluetooth that won't require periodic fiddling when some jerk decides to embrace systemd.

hiram112 9y ago
I'm with you. I've been using Linux and Windows for years. When Windows 7 came out, I moved any Linux installs to VMs simply because it still cannot get the things you mentioned working, even on Thinkpads and Dell Precisions, which are far better than most laptops. It was good enough for most development. Work provided me a MBP about 2 years ago, and while it's not perfect, it's good enough. I will not be buying another Windows computer anytime in the future.
jamespo 9y ago
Running linux in a VM condemns you to never really understand it
majewsky 9y ago
How long ago was this? The last time I had problems with suspend or WiFi, even on brand-new laptops, was maybe 8 years ago.
- na85 9y ago
  2015

arca_vorago 9y ago

Yep, the EULA/TOS on Dell Ubuntu images is egregious to say the least. In all cases you should reinstall yourself.

takluyver 9y ago
Threads like this are always littered with advice to reinstall the OS of any computer you buy, and it troubles me. The vast majority of people have never heard this advice, and would have trouble following it even if they had. Are we saying that only people technically competent enough to install an OS (plus a few close friends and relatives) can have fast, safe computers? Do we think that what we don't accept should be good enough for the rest of them? Or have we already given up any hope of solving it more than individually? I don't have an answer here, but I'd like to see the discussion go beyond 'no probs, reinstall the OS' now and then.
- WorldMaker 9y ago
  I recommend to all my friends and family Microsoft's Signature Edition program that vets OEMs for clean Windows installs with minimal drivers (it's easiest to buy a Signature Edition at a Microsoft Store, but some OEMs, Best Buys, and Staples can all offer it if you ask nicely). So far that seems to be pretty sustainable advice for non-technical friends and family expecting to use Windows.
- arca_vorago 9y ago
  Well I agree in general, but to get there you would have to change how vendors operate with customers and between each other, and that doesn't seem to be happening despite all the spyware and other craptastic after effects. If congress wasn't so corrupt I would say regulation might help, but as it stands Kstreet would likely make it worse... Another point of view is I don't like this assumption users can't or won't learn. I don't complain that a TIG welder is only for experts because I can't operate it with no training, because its a tool that requires training, and so is a computer. This is why I think one of the main problems is that schools should not be teaching proprietary systems. (Once again a thing RMS was right about)