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Why do you think that is? Why is it so hard to discuss these things in a meaningful way. We all like to think we are reasonable people, that we are open to havi

by macrael 16y ago

Why do you think that is? Why is it so hard to discuss these things in a meaningful way. We all like to think we are reasonable people, that we are open to having our minds changed, and yet it does seem to be impossible to talk about big ideas in any setting other than a dialogue between friends.

crystalis 16y ago
There's a good set of articles available at http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Politics_is_the_Mind-Killer http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Politics_is_the_Mind-Killer on the topic. http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Arguments_as_soldiers http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Arguments_as_soldiers is also often relevant. edit: I don't know if I was downvoted for seeming spammy, but Eliezer's writings actually cover the topic pretty well.
- karjaluoto 16y ago
  Thanks for the links to the wiki--I'll take a closer look at them on my bus ride home. (This afternoon got a little hectic, and I wasn't able to give them a look yet.)
karjaluoto 16y ago
I don't really know. To me, it's always seemed that the best, and most interesting, discussions are the ones with some "meat" to them. My wife's uncle was a very loud man. He was also well read and intelligent. I didn't agree with him on everything, but greatly enjoyed our discussions (particularly the ones accompanied by good scotch). His sons later recounted a phrase he had used commonly. I paraphrase, but it was something akin to: "Argue with the person across the table as though you love them." I'm butchering the phrasing here, but I believe the sentiment holds. To Terry, a heated debate was a positive thing, and never an attack--no matter how fierce the discussion became. I've always liked that thinking, and believe it's the way we actually learn new things and strengthen our resolve on what we believe.
- loup-vaillant 16y ago
  > "Argue with the person across the table as though you love them." Excellent. Probably one of the best way to be willing to actually change your mind. http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/How_To_Actually_Change_Your_Mind http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/How_To_Actually_Change_Your_M...

by macrael 16y ago

crystalis 16y ago

There's a good set of articles available at http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Politics_is_the_Mind-Killer http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Politics_is_the_Mind-Killer on the topic. http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Arguments_as_soldiers http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Arguments_as_soldiers is also often relevant. edit: I don't know if I was downvoted for seeming spammy, but Eliezer's writings actually cover the topic pretty well.

karjaluoto 16y ago
Thanks for the links to the wiki--I'll take a closer look at them on my bus ride home. (This afternoon got a little hectic, and I wasn't able to give them a look yet.)

karjaluoto 16y ago

I don't really know. To me, it's always seemed that the best, and most interesting, discussions are the ones with some "meat" to them. My wife's uncle was a very loud man. He was also well read and intelligent. I didn't agree with him on everything, but greatly enjoyed our discussions (particularly the ones accompanied by good scotch). His sons later recounted a phrase he had used commonly. I paraphrase, but it was something akin to: "Argue with the person across the table as though you love them." I'm butchering the phrasing here, but I believe the sentiment holds. To Terry, a heated debate was a positive thing, and never an attack--no matter how fierce the discussion became. I've always liked that thinking, and believe it's the way we actually learn new things and strengthen our resolve on what we believe.

loup-vaillant 16y ago
> "Argue with the person across the table as though you love them." Excellent. Probably one of the best way to be willing to actually change your mind. http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/How_To_Actually_Change_Your_Mind http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/How_To_Actually_Change_Your_M...