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>> Saudi Arabia viewed cleaning as women's work, sure, just like nearly every country in Europe 100 years ago. Gender equality is still a big problem in Europe

>> Saudi Arabia viewed cleaning as women's work, sure, just like nearly every country in Europe 100 years ago. Gender equality is still a big problem in Europe, actually: https://www.oecd.org/inequality.htm#gender https://www.oecd.org/inequality.htm#gender

Pyrhos 9y ago
>Gender equality is still a big problem in Europe Men and women are equal under the law (in most or all European states) when it comes to labour. Gender inequality in Europe is largely caused by individual choices. This is best demonstrated by the fact that in poorer countries of eastern Europe, women are much more represented in STEM as it's a good way out of poverty, while richer countries (such as Scandinavian) where women have more choice, the interest gap for STEM is much more skewed in favor of men. It should also be noted that in countries where a company cannot fire you for going part time at work, it is women who overwhelmingly take advantage of this. Also, equating the inequality of women in the middle east with Europe in any way is ridiculous.
- QAPereo 9y ago
  Ah those famous “individual choices” which are perfectly spherical, and in a vacuum. /s
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    Are you saying those choices are influenced?
    - QAPereo 9y ago
      I’m saying they’re not made in the ideal case, free from external pressure, influence, and so on.
  - flukus 9y ago
    I think you missed the point, Scandinavian countries are closer to that perfect sphere in a vacuum, they are much more free of external pressures than those in poorer countries. They make their choices on what will make them happiest and not on some harsh economic realities.
    - QAPereo 9y ago
      ...by eschewing individuality, being small and having the luck to have petro money. How is that “free from influence” when you’re talking about the people who invented Jante law?!
- jmngomes 9y ago
  My point was that gender equality is far from a solved problem in Europe (unlike the previous post claimed in "just like nearly every country in Europe 100 years ago."). To me, what actually sounds ridiculous is to dismiss the problem by saying it "results from choices" when you have evidence (data on the website I linked) that demonstrates that - all things equal (experience, geography, etc) - women globally make less money, namely in STEM jobs, than their male counterparts. "Men and women are equal under the law" in Europe, but the reality is far from text in law, unlike what was previously said.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- posterboy 9y ago
  > Also, equating the inequality of women in the middle east with Europe in any way is ridiculous considering the part of their lifes exactly 18 years after birth.
- YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago
  Well, assuming that men and women would make the same choices given the same options, we must consider countries were the number of women in STEM fields is close to that of the men to be much more equal for women, than countries where this is not the case. Otherwise, you have to explain why womens' "individual choices" would differ from those of men. I note that assuming that they do not is the simplext theory that needs the least complex explanation.

Pyrhos 9y ago

>Gender equality is still a big problem in Europe Men and women are equal under the law (in most or all European states) when it comes to labour. Gender inequality in Europe is largely caused by individual choices. This is best demonstrated by the fact that in poorer countries of eastern Europe, women are much more represented in STEM as it's a good way out of poverty, while richer countries (such as Scandinavian) where women have more choice, the interest gap for STEM is much more skewed in favor of men. It should also be noted that in countries where a company cannot fire you for going part time at work, it is women who overwhelmingly take advantage of this. Also, equating the inequality of women in the middle east with Europe in any way is ridiculous.

QAPereo 9y ago
Ah those famous “individual choices” which are perfectly spherical, and in a vacuum. /s
- Chris2048 9y ago
  Are you saying those choices are influenced?
  - QAPereo 9y ago
    I’m saying they’re not made in the ideal case, free from external pressure, influence, and so on.
- flukus 9y ago
  I think you missed the point, Scandinavian countries are closer to that perfect sphere in a vacuum, they are much more free of external pressures than those in poorer countries. They make their choices on what will make them happiest and not on some harsh economic realities.
  - QAPereo 9y ago
    ...by eschewing individuality, being small and having the luck to have petro money. How is that “free from influence” when you’re talking about the people who invented Jante law?!
jmngomes 9y ago
My point was that gender equality is far from a solved problem in Europe (unlike the previous post claimed in "just like nearly every country in Europe 100 years ago."). To me, what actually sounds ridiculous is to dismiss the problem by saying it "results from choices" when you have evidence (data on the website I linked) that demonstrates that - all things equal (experience, geography, etc) - women globally make less money, namely in STEM jobs, than their male counterparts. "Men and women are equal under the law" in Europe, but the reality is far from text in law, unlike what was previously said.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
posterboy 9y ago
> Also, equating the inequality of women in the middle east with Europe in any way is ridiculous considering the part of their lifes exactly 18 years after birth.
YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago
Well, assuming that men and women would make the same choices given the same options, we must consider countries were the number of women in STEM fields is close to that of the men to be much more equal for women, than countries where this is not the case. Otherwise, you have to explain why womens' "individual choices" would differ from those of men. I note that assuming that they do not is the simplext theory that needs the least complex explanation.