3 ms·

ergh why are we reinventing buses as an app

by jakob223 9y ago

habosa 9y ago
Agree. But since the bus in SF is $2.50 I can see why my friend takes the Uber.
- nicolewhite 9y ago
  The Uber is also safer, cleaner, and more reliable.
  - TheDong 9y ago
    I highly doubt that "safer" is correct; on average, buses have fewer deaths per km traveled. Uber drivers are generally decent drivers, but they're still not as well trained as bus drivers, they're more likely to be distracted by e.g. fiddling with the uber or map apps on their phone. Unless you have numbers specifically about uber's fleet being significantly safer than typical drivers, your claim goes against the results of recent studies finding busses and rails safer than cars.
    - mschuster91 9y ago
      I believe GP equates "safer" with "no hobos, gangstas, creeps, drunkards or other people creating a nuisance for fellow travellers", and he is absolutely correct on this. Public transport has the downside of being public, and given the rise of homelessness and the fall of noncommercial venues where e.g. youth can hang around, it's inevitable that they end up in public transport - and create a feeling of unsafeness for other users.
secabeen 9y ago
One factor is the reputation/blacklist system. If you are harrassed on a bus, you don't have much recourse. Sure, you can complain to the metro police, but all they can do is take a report. On a shared ride like this, Uber/Lyft can increment the "harassment complaint" counter of all of the other riders with you. A regular harasser will quickly add up multiple complaints, and will be banned from the system. Honestly, the biggest change brought by Uber, AirBNB, etc. is the reputation and recourse systems. They have brought a lot of accountability to systems that historically were low on them on both sides. The newly-found accountability allowed a lot of new entrants to these markets that weren't saddled with the high levels of process that had been used in the past to impose even a little accountability on these services.
- zaarn 9y ago
  > If you are harrassed on a bus, you don't have much recourse. Sure, you can complain to the metro police, but all they can do is take a report. Not my experience really. I've filed at least two successful reports of harassment with local police and one complaint against a bus driver at the responsible bus organization.
- n_time 9y ago
  These policies of "harassment complaint", reputation, and recourse systems seem to me a bit like "you will be safe from the unwashed masses". Paid service apartheid?
  - yazan94 9y ago
    > These policies of "harassment complaint", reputation, and recourse systems seem to me a bit like "you will be safe from indecent people". FTFY
    - n_time 9y ago
      My point was that these services are using technical terminology to soften and obscure the stratifying of spaces based on power/money. You've responded by softening the terminology again. I see others pointing out in sub-threads that these services are better than buses because there are "no hobos, gangstas, creeps, drunkards or other people creating a nuisance for fellow travellers". Should I break down those labels and across which lines they are dividing society? :)
      - yazan94 9y ago
        > Should I break down those labels and across which lines they are dividing society? :) Are you implying that only 'lower-class' people are "hobos, gangstas, creeps, drunkards or other people creating a nuisance"? I ride public transit daily, and there is a non-trivial number of 'high-class' people that make riding the metro a pain (The subway is full, why are you pushing and shoving to get in if there is another subway coming in 60 seconds?) There are probably people who wouldn't want to take public transit because of the list of people strictly because they deem themselves above or as better than the "hobos, gangstas, creeps, drunkards". With no evidence to back my claim, I would argue that the majority of people who would opt for Uber over public transit do so because of lower cost, convenience, and "other people creating a nuisance for fellow travellers"
sneak 9y ago
Because buses don’t provide the service that people want.

ergh why are we reinventing buses as an app

habosa 9y ago

Agree. But since the bus in SF is $2.50 I can see why my friend takes the Uber.

nicolewhite 9y ago
The Uber is also safer, cleaner, and more reliable.
- TheDong 9y ago
  I highly doubt that "safer" is correct; on average, buses have fewer deaths per km traveled. Uber drivers are generally decent drivers, but they're still not as well trained as bus drivers, they're more likely to be distracted by e.g. fiddling with the uber or map apps on their phone. Unless you have numbers specifically about uber's fleet being significantly safer than typical drivers, your claim goes against the results of recent studies finding busses and rails safer than cars.
  - mschuster91 9y ago
    I believe GP equates "safer" with "no hobos, gangstas, creeps, drunkards or other people creating a nuisance for fellow travellers", and he is absolutely correct on this. Public transport has the downside of being public, and given the rise of homelessness and the fall of noncommercial venues where e.g. youth can hang around, it's inevitable that they end up in public transport - and create a feeling of unsafeness for other users.

secabeen 9y ago

One factor is the reputation/blacklist system. If you are harrassed on a bus, you don't have much recourse. Sure, you can complain to the metro police, but all they can do is take a report. On a shared ride like this, Uber/Lyft can increment the "harassment complaint" counter of all of the other riders with you. A regular harasser will quickly add up multiple complaints, and will be banned from the system. Honestly, the biggest change brought by Uber, AirBNB, etc. is the reputation and recourse systems. They have brought a lot of accountability to systems that historically were low on them on both sides. The newly-found accountability allowed a lot of new entrants to these markets that weren't saddled with the high levels of process that had been used in the past to impose even a little accountability on these services.

zaarn 9y ago
> If you are harrassed on a bus, you don't have much recourse. Sure, you can complain to the metro police, but all they can do is take a report. Not my experience really. I've filed at least two successful reports of harassment with local police and one complaint against a bus driver at the responsible bus organization.
n_time 9y ago
These policies of "harassment complaint", reputation, and recourse systems seem to me a bit like "you will be safe from the unwashed masses". Paid service apartheid?
- yazan94 9y ago
  > These policies of "harassment complaint", reputation, and recourse systems seem to me a bit like "you will be safe from indecent people". FTFY
  - n_time 9y ago
    My point was that these services are using technical terminology to soften and obscure the stratifying of spaces based on power/money. You've responded by softening the terminology again. I see others pointing out in sub-threads that these services are better than buses because there are "no hobos, gangstas, creeps, drunkards or other people creating a nuisance for fellow travellers". Should I break down those labels and across which lines they are dividing society? :)
    - yazan94 9y ago
      > Should I break down those labels and across which lines they are dividing society? :) Are you implying that only 'lower-class' people are "hobos, gangstas, creeps, drunkards or other people creating a nuisance"? I ride public transit daily, and there is a non-trivial number of 'high-class' people that make riding the metro a pain (The subway is full, why are you pushing and shoving to get in if there is another subway coming in 60 seconds?) There are probably people who wouldn't want to take public transit because of the list of people strictly because they deem themselves above or as better than the "hobos, gangstas, creeps, drunkards". With no evidence to back my claim, I would argue that the majority of people who would opt for Uber over public transit do so because of lower cost, convenience, and "other people creating a nuisance for fellow travellers"

sneak 9y ago

Because buses don’t provide the service that people want.