8 ms·
Great? Really? The country that flys predator drones, runs the School of the Americas, orchestrated the Bay of Pigs, sold guns to the Contras to fund a war in I
by djsumdog 9y ago
Great? Really? The country that flys predator drones, runs the School of the Americas, orchestrated the Bay of Pigs, sold guns to the Contras to fund a war in Iran, funnels tons of guns and buys tons of drugs out of South and Central America, driving people to flee their homes?
I'm not proud of this country. This isn't even a democracy. It's an oligarchy. Only the opinions of the top 10% of income earners even remotely match policy decisions. This isn't new now, it's been this way for longer than I've been alive and longer than my parents have been alive.
Whether it's the Rockefeller funded WWF kicking tribes of their lands in Africa to preserve "wilderness areas" or phone companies outsourcing building phones to China so their countries turn into polluted wastelands instead of ours, the high income countries of the world are only "great" because they exploit everyone else.
- Aloha 9y agoWithout sounding like an asshole, either be part of the solution, or kindly find some place more suitable for your world outlook - if you have solutions for some of these problems, I'd be glad to hear them. In the mean time, I'm going to be proud of what my country has accomplished, even if I often don't like my government very much, our history is unique, our culture rich and varied, so while yes, everything in that first paragraph you said is true, I'm still proud to be an American overall.
- drb91 9y agoWhat does pride even mean if you choose only to think of the things of which you approve? You have pride for something that does not exist. It only makes sense to accept the totality of your nation, including all the ugly aspects. I mean I love this land, and my neighbors, but the government I’m almost completely ambivalent about. This is hardly a recipe for patriotism.
- Aloha 9y agoI make a distinction between my government and my country, I'm proud of my country but somewhere between indifferent and hostile to my government.
- drb91 9y agoSo the country is just all the good things done by US citizens, and all the bad things are the government? It’s difficult to parse out which defining characteristics you’re proud of, of what the country even means to you. Love is great; patriotism (even pride!) is lazy.
- yjftsjthsd-h 9y agoI am proud of good traits that I personally posses. I also have bad traits. I am still proud of my good traits.
- mythrwy 9y agoDid you expect something different from organized groups of humans? Besides "America" didn't sell guns to Contras, some people in an administration sold guns to Contras. And you say "drone" as if it's universally a bad thing. Possibly it is (on occasion) the best of bad options? There are people who if left alone would harm civilization, would cause suffering to others, would cause regression. What would you do in those cases? Live and let live? Invade the country to root out a few individuals? Sanctions? Finger wagging? Imperialist empires aren't "morally right" but they aren't new either. Maybe some are more morally right than others.
- rdtsc 9y ago> The country that flys predator drones, runs the School of the Americas, orchestrated the Bay of Pigs... Those are good to point out. This country has done all those things and worse. That's why its government has to be criticized and scrutinized constantly, otherwise it will continue doing those things. At the same time buying things made in this country will probably help regular workers get ahead, if they have food on the table, they'll have more time to lift their heads up and see what Uncle Sam is doing. Otherwise, it's hard to care where the drones fly if there is no money to pay for rent next month.
- nprz 9y agoYeah, yeah. We've read our Chomsky too.
- ahartmetz 9y agoDid Chomsky actually claim that the wealth of the evil Western countries is stolen? I don't remember reading that part. I only remember reading about grossly unethical interventions, mainly in South America.
- nprz 9y agoHe has indeed. http://www.csub.edu/~mault/the%20manufacture%20of%20consent.pdf http://www.csub.edu/~mault/the%20manufacture%20of%20consent....
- ahartmetz 9y agoI don't read that in there. He says the land of the USA was stolen from "Indians", as they were called, which is factually correct. I admit that I didn't read it thoroughly, but I think I've read at least a few sentences on every page and didn't find anything about economy as such.
- ahartmetz 9y ago> the high income countries of the world are only "great" because they exploit everyone else Man, I hate this trope. Let me fix it for you: high income countries are only "great" because they have achieved a great deal of institutional, economic and scientific sophistication. This puts yes them in a position to do shitty things, and they do shitty things, no question. But the actual source of wealth isn't exploitation of other countries. There are plenty of high income countries that don't exploit, and low income countries that do exploit. Also look at history: exploitation or not made little difference except for the most successful colonial powers, so more or less Portugal, Spain, maybe Netherlands, and the UK. Those things are all over. Progress is not a zero-sum game. Wealth can be created, if it exists it does not have to be because it's stolen. I mean - how did the amount of wealth in the world increase, anyway? Stealing is kind of lossy, it can't have been by mutual stealing. Also, natural resources are not that important anymore. And high income countries were/are doing just fine mining them on their own soil.
- Arn_Thor 9y ago> high income countries are only "great" because they have achieved a great deal of institutional, economic and scientific sophistication Wrong. High-income countries are "great" because they have been granted by history (and luck) healthy-ish institutions, beneficial economic conditions and have had the resources and foresight to conduct scientific exploration. What the US has done with those factors (some individuals willingly and deliberately and some entities due to economic push/pull factors such as being beholden to shareholders and quarterly profit figures) is to exploit cheap labor, first in the US and later on abroad. This has been done with utter disregard for the health, safety and well-being of workers and consumer. It has always taken at least one tragedy, or general public outrage, for either the government or corporations to change course. In simple but not simplistic terms: A significant share of wealth in the United States is the direct result of exploitation of non-American labor. Now, the US isn't alone in doing things this way. All countries and market participants do this to some extent, because the economic incentive and opportunity structure in the world encourages it. But to hell with anyone pretending our (industrialized, western) wealth isn't built on the broken bones of others!