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Yes, when the working conditions in other countries are worse to the point of cruelty. The justification is not nationalism, but rather directing consumption to

Yes, when the working conditions in other countries are worse to the point of cruelty. The justification is not nationalism, but rather directing consumption toward production that is labor-friendly. So not so much "Made in the USA" as much as "made by workers who feel good about their current situation". But then one could ask whether certain parts of Europe enjoy the same moral prerogative wrt the US?

dgut 9y ago
How does that help them? Pretty sure those working under "cruel" conditions would rather keep their jobs. Also, European regulations are the strictest and labor unions the loudest in the world, so it's unlikely any meaningful quantity of goods produced under cruel conditions make their way into the European market. At least we believe that.
- throwawayjava 9y ago
  The assertion that all such labor is a voluntary choice on the part of laborers is... depressingly naive, to say the least. And even in cases where it's true, ignores the fact that many may have preferred not to have had the choice imposed in the first place. E.g. subsistence farmers forced off their land and into cities, either by mandate or through unchecked externalities (aka the polluting plant next door). And purchasing from these manufacturing operations helps spread that misery. I'm not saying it's an easy calculus, but your characterization is surely reductive.
  - dgut 9y ago
    > [...] ignores the fact that many may have preferred not to have had the choice imposed in the first place. E.g. subsistence farmers forced off their land and into cities, either by mandate or through unchecked externalities. Do you have any sources for these claims?
- jordanb 9y ago
  It's a leveling down of standards. The new global standard for the conditions a factory worker may expect is that they'll work 12 hour days, live in a barracks, get paid every three months and suffer routine exposure to dangerous amounts of Benzene---to say nothing of the wages. And if you can't or won't work under these conditions then you're non-employable. So American worker gets thrown out because he's suddenly insufficiently downtrodden to be a competitive worker in his former line of work. And maybe the Benzene is worth it to the average Chinese worker. I can't speak for him. But I can say that if it's not, he'll lose his job like the American did and they'll find someone even cheaper somewhere else. PS: I guarantee you that there are no separate factories in China for export into the EU where workers receive EU-level protections. Don't be daft. The European markets are full of goods produced in horrible conditions.
  - dgut 9y ago
    The question is whether the Chinese would be better off without, or would it make them unable to sustain themselves? All nations went through horrible things to reach the high standard of living we take for granted today.

dgut 9y ago

How does that help them? Pretty sure those working under "cruel" conditions would rather keep their jobs. Also, European regulations are the strictest and labor unions the loudest in the world, so it's unlikely any meaningful quantity of goods produced under cruel conditions make their way into the European market. At least we believe that.

throwawayjava 9y ago
The assertion that all such labor is a voluntary choice on the part of laborers is... depressingly naive, to say the least. And even in cases where it's true, ignores the fact that many may have preferred not to have had the choice imposed in the first place. E.g. subsistence farmers forced off their land and into cities, either by mandate or through unchecked externalities (aka the polluting plant next door). And purchasing from these manufacturing operations helps spread that misery. I'm not saying it's an easy calculus, but your characterization is surely reductive.
- dgut 9y ago
  > [...] ignores the fact that many may have preferred not to have had the choice imposed in the first place. E.g. subsistence farmers forced off their land and into cities, either by mandate or through unchecked externalities. Do you have any sources for these claims?
jordanb 9y ago
It's a leveling down of standards. The new global standard for the conditions a factory worker may expect is that they'll work 12 hour days, live in a barracks, get paid every three months and suffer routine exposure to dangerous amounts of Benzene---to say nothing of the wages. And if you can't or won't work under these conditions then you're non-employable. So American worker gets thrown out because he's suddenly insufficiently downtrodden to be a competitive worker in his former line of work. And maybe the Benzene is worth it to the average Chinese worker. I can't speak for him. But I can say that if it's not, he'll lose his job like the American did and they'll find someone even cheaper somewhere else. PS: I guarantee you that there are no separate factories in China for export into the EU where workers receive EU-level protections. Don't be daft. The European markets are full of goods produced in horrible conditions.
- dgut 9y ago
  The question is whether the Chinese would be better off without, or would it make them unable to sustain themselves? All nations went through horrible things to reach the high standard of living we take for granted today.