8 ms·

What is it like to live and work in Bali as an engineer?

77 points by roadbeats 9y ago

davidzweig 9y ago
I am taking a week off work in Dahab, Egypt. It must be off-season, because most of the hotels and restaurants are empty, but it seems to have similar advantages. It's very inexpensive, a sizable semi-permanent population of foreigners, on the sea with good snorkeling and interesting places to walk nearby. There are very cheap flights from Europe to Eilat, Israel, although the Israelis charge you $25 USD as you leave over the land border. Actually I was thinking of setting up a kind of very inexpensive live-in hackerspace, in the Ukraine perhaps, with workshops for metalwork, electronics etc. and a live-in fabricator. You could live there, study, work on projects, help others.
- jpatokal 9y ago
  It's been permanent off-season in the Sinai for quite some time thanks to Islamic State and friends, who killed several hundred people worshipping at the "wrong" mosque earlier this week...
- s3nnyy 9y ago
  I had similar ideas and I am natively from Ukraine. Do you want to email me? You find my contact details in my HN-handle.
ademup 9y ago
I spent an extremely memorable month in Ubud 5 years ago writing the software that runs my SO's successful consulting business. She still uses the software, and I'm considering another stint there for my next project.
drinchev 9y ago
My question to ask is : What about English in Bali? Can you deal with banks / landlords / supermarkets / doctors, etc in English?
- tim333 9y ago
  An awful lot people speak English - you'd probably get by quite easily.
roadbeats 9y ago
Thanks everyone for upvoting. I wanted to share this article in HN because I know many people here are looking for alternative ideas about where to live meanwhile building something independently. Not just Ubud specifically, I recommend people like me to explore developing world and consider alternative places for starting their own venture. Cheers
justhackedme 9y ago
So you're working illegally?
cyberferret 9y ago
Ubud is beautiful, and I will probably take a couple of weeks to work there again next year, but I don't know if I could ever put down roots in a place like Bali. Full story: I am of Sri Lankan heritage, born and raised in Malaysia and now live in Australia with my own family. So, I know what it is like to live in an Asian country after also living in the West (er, South). My summarised take:- UPSIDES: Bali and other developing Asian countries ARE very cheap to live in for the long term. The food is a big plus to me, but I grew up with most of these foods and fruits, and they are a familiar part of my life. Some westerners may have trouble adapting. For instance, I LOVE durian, but it make most of my Aussie friend retch even when I mention them. Of all the things I miss most about Asia, it is the street food. I also miss the mixes cultures. I really enjoyed going to various friends houses throughout the year to celebrate Chinese New Year, end of Ramadan feasting, Deepavali, Christmas etc. There was a general cohesiveness of different cultures that doesn't seem as strong to me in Australia. DOWNSIDES: Most third world countries are rife with corruption. Get arrested in Bali and you better be ready to pony up some hard cash to the officials or else face worse consequences. Health services are also really bad, in terms of emergency services. I routinely get dental work done in Bali, but if I broke a limb or got appendicitis or an infection, I would far rather be back in an Australian hospital. Language can also be a factor, I guess. I speak Malaysian and English, so getting around in Bali is not really an issue for me (Indonesian is 99% similar to Malaysian). However, I would struggle a bit in places like Vietnam or Laos. Bali, and especially Ubud, are being ironically killed by their popularity. A LOT of local Australians I know go there to co-work for weeks at a time, and unfortunately, with tourism also comes nasty things like higher crime and fraud. Bali is becoming less and less safe as some of the less savoury locals learn how to manipulate and extort visitors. The old days of being humbugged by stall holders at the beach seems quaint. The newer operations on unsuspecting tourists are far more sinister. Conclusion - I don't mean to put anyone off. Bali is a beautiful place, and Ubud is definitely worth a visit at least once, to work at with your laptop, or for a company retreat. But I wouldn't pencil it in as a 'bucket list' destination. There are plenty of other Asian countries that can offer the same, or if not better opportunities. For those used to the convenience and modernity of the US, perhaps Singapore or Penang (Malaysia) might be a better place to experience the difference in cultures?
- 9y ago
scurvy 9y ago
Must be about ten years since I was last in Bali, but I distinctly remember paying both an entrance and exit visa when visiting. Only Bali downside, the beachy parts can get overrun with Australians acting the way Americans do in Tijuana.
- froogler 9y ago
  There are no exit visas anymore and depending on where you are from, you may also need no visas for short visits.
  - scurvy 9y ago
    Great to hear!
King-Aaron 9y ago
Just a side-note, there is a lot of active volcanic activity throughout Indonesia. Currently pretty much all flights in and out of Bali are cancelled due to Mt Agung being on the brink of eruption. It's not one of those things you'd need to worry about every day of course, but it could inconvenience you if you had to travel and got caught out by it.
theonething 9y ago
> I can't do anything about bats pooping in my bathroom That may be a dealbreaker for me.
- roadbeats 9y ago
  You can keep the lights open during the night then :)
jtchang 9y ago
Not to discourage the article but just because people smile in SE asia a lot doesn't necessarily mean they are happy all the time. A lot of it is cultural as well.
- geomark 9y ago
  They may not even be nice people. I've seen young hooligans smiling at packpackers while they were discussing what good stuff they might have in their backpacks. The backpackers didn't understand the language so they just smiled back.
  - hbarka 9y ago
    Yeah right
- hellofunk 9y ago
  Completely agree. It is a cliche and somewhat prejudice to talk about the "Thai smile" or the smiling in other asian nations. These cliches are informed by foreigners who impose their own motivation for smiling onto that of a very different culture. It's not unlike how I often hear non-Americans talk about how friendly all Americans are, simply because when you do things like get a meal at a restaurant, the waiter will ask, "Can I get anything else for you?" Well, to me they are just doing their job but to some people from different places, the waiter is being unusually friendly to ask that.
  - roadbeats 9y ago
    Imagine this; you leave your home and say good morning to your neighbor smiling and sharing positive energy every morning. But you're right; a person might smile at you when he is actually carry negative feelings. For example, my landlord is a greedy guy and he sometimes wants to rip me off and he also smiles :)
- bodegajed 9y ago
  What does that mean though? That thier smiles can be fake. I dunno. Slow island tropical life could be nice on people's mood though.
peterburkimsher 9y ago
Probably better to wait until the ash from the volcano clears. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42147422 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42147422 On a more long-term note, though, visa policies are much more friendly in the East than the West. "Indonesia doesn't require visa for Turkish citizens so my family can visit me anytime they want without going through visa application processes. This is one of the reasons I left US; my family and friends always wanted to visit me when I lived in Oakland but they wouldn't go through the expensive and humiliating visa application process." I currently live and work for a local company in Kaohsiung, Taiwan, which runs a factory making microSD memory cards. The salary is low, but the living costs (food & rent) are very low, so I end up saving over 50% of my salary each month. It's comfortable. People who work over the Internet get paid even more, but they have to risk working illegally on tourist visas instead of having an Alien Resident Card. I'd try to stay longer if the government would do something about the education system, dual citizenship, military service requirement, and air pollution. Those reasons make me think it's better to go elsewhere to start a family. This is a nice place to be young though.
- tim333 9y ago
  Re the ash, I'm in Kuta just now and it's not really noticeable apart from the airport being closed about half the time.
- philliphaydon 9y ago
  > I'd try to stay longer if the government would do something about the education system, dual citizenship, military service requirement, and air pollution. Those reasons make me think it's better to go elsewhere to start a family. This is a nice place to be young though. Are these issues in Taiwan? I haven't been to Kaohsiung (except when flying back to Singapore) but my wife is Taiwanese so I've traveled to Taiwan a lot. Taiwan care a LOT about education and the people are pretty highly educated AFAIK, They also allow dual citizenship (which a lot of countries in Asia don't), granted it's impossible to get citizenship in Taiwan. And air pollution is no better/worse than say, Sydney - Australia.
  - peterburkimsher 9y ago
Alex3917 9y ago
I spent a few days there a couple years ago. Ubud is a cool place, with incredibly good and cheap food and housing. But the reason that costs of living are cheaper may not be entirely disconnected from the fact that life feels cheaper in general. Not only is there currently a rabies epidemic among the wild dogs that are everywhere, but there are a million other random ways to get killed, everything from falling into giant unmarked holes in the middle of the sidewalk to getting hit by motorbikes.
- kayoone 9y ago
  > But the reason that costs of living are cheaper may not be entirely disconnected from the fact that life feels cheaper in general Of course the low costs of living are related to the general economic situation, most people there are very poor by western standards and Bali infrastructure is at it's limits and has poor safety.
- roadbeats 9y ago
  It's overly pessimistic view but if you didn't like it then you can consider other parts of the world. May be Patagonia, or Kenya ? I never visited both of these countries but would love to hear from other engineers.
- RowanH 9y ago
  I spent 3 weeks there in October with friends and thoroughly loved it, in the same breath also loved coming home. [yes...I can drink water out the tap and it won't try to kill me!]. I think the dogs have improved in the last few years with a concerted effort to clean things up in that regard [errr.. don't want to think what that actually means]. We spent 10 days on the Sayan Terrace area in Ubud and could certainly see the mental wellness qualities of coding overlooking a stunning vista. That said the latency was pretty terrible back to servers located in the states (quite iffy internet) + power up and down; as opposed to North Kuta where at least internet was more solid. If younger me were trying to do something hidden way for a while coding; and location didn't make a difference, and you wanted to limit costs... it certainly would be a consideration. Stunning beautiful country, with a lot of litter, a healthy dose of asia-traffic-chaos, lovely, lovely people, cheap cost of living. You would just have to have a bit of a strong constitution about the odd thing you'd see. Of course, you'd have to not get sucked into getting into Island time and loosing productivity to Bintangs...
sho 9y ago
The article doesn't mention anything about the author's visa? For indonesia you can get a VOA for 30 days free or 60 days for $50 but you can't stay longer than that without an APEC card or a KITAS (work permit - hard to get). Visa policies are certainly more relaxed in SEA than the western world but you can't just hang out all year, working nonetheless, and expect no issues.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- roadbeats 9y ago
  You can get three months social visa via agents and extend it bunch of times. This is what I did before Kitas. I just added this info to the visa section.
  - sho 9y ago
    Hm, the social visa doesn't allow you to work. Of course you still can but you're running a risk. Last year there were a bunch of people deported at short notice after immigration raids, including westerners. And you need a local to invite you. Still, good to explain how it's an option. I also love Bali, so long as it's as far away from Kuta as possible...
- amaks 9y ago
  I think it does, check the Free-Visa Policy section.
  - sho 9y ago
    Like I said, that free visa is for 1 month. You can renew for 1 month if you pay $50 on entry. The free visa you're not allowed to work. So this guy is either there illegally, is doing visa runs to Singapore every month or two, or has some other visa that I'm curious about. Source: lived there for a while and did a LOT of visa runs
    - 9y ago
tvalentius 9y ago
for those who are interested, we also have an active dev community here in Bali. There is Facebook Developer Circles, BaliJS, Python Bali, etc https://www.facebook.com/groups/devcbali https://www.facebook.com/groups/devcbali http://balijs.com/ http://balijs.com/
hahah 9y ago
where is the treasure in yhe gold mine bruh,

77 points by roadbeats 9y ago

I am taking a week off work in Dahab, Egypt. It must be off-season, because most of the hotels and restaurants are empty, but it seems to have similar advantages. It's very inexpensive, a sizable semi-permanent population of foreigners, on the sea with good snorkeling and interesting places to walk nearby. There are very cheap flights from Europe to Eilat, Israel, although the Israelis charge you $25 USD as you leave over the land border. Actually I was thinking of setting up a kind of very inexpensive live-in hackerspace, in the Ukraine perhaps, with workshops for metalwork, electronics etc. and a live-in fabricator. You could live there, study, work on projects, help others.

jpatokal 9y ago
It's been permanent off-season in the Sinai for quite some time thanks to Islamic State and friends, who killed several hundred people worshipping at the "wrong" mosque earlier this week...
s3nnyy 9y ago
I had similar ideas and I am natively from Ukraine. Do you want to email me? You find my contact details in my HN-handle.

ademup 9y ago

I spent an extremely memorable month in Ubud 5 years ago writing the software that runs my SO's successful consulting business. She still uses the software, and I'm considering another stint there for my next project.

drinchev 9y ago

My question to ask is : What about English in Bali? Can you deal with banks / landlords / supermarkets / doctors, etc in English?

tim333 9y ago
An awful lot people speak English - you'd probably get by quite easily.

roadbeats 9y ago

Thanks everyone for upvoting. I wanted to share this article in HN because I know many people here are looking for alternative ideas about where to live meanwhile building something independently. Not just Ubud specifically, I recommend people like me to explore developing world and consider alternative places for starting their own venture. Cheers

justhackedme 9y ago

So you're working illegally?

cyberferret 9y ago

Ubud is beautiful, and I will probably take a couple of weeks to work there again next year, but I don't know if I could ever put down roots in a place like Bali. Full story: I am of Sri Lankan heritage, born and raised in Malaysia and now live in Australia with my own family. So, I know what it is like to live in an Asian country after also living in the West (er, South). My summarised take:- UPSIDES: Bali and other developing Asian countries ARE very cheap to live in for the long term. The food is a big plus to me, but I grew up with most of these foods and fruits, and they are a familiar part of my life. Some westerners may have trouble adapting. For instance, I LOVE durian, but it make most of my Aussie friend retch even when I mention them. Of all the things I miss most about Asia, it is the street food. I also miss the mixes cultures. I really enjoyed going to various friends houses throughout the year to celebrate Chinese New Year, end of Ramadan feasting, Deepavali, Christmas etc. There was a general cohesiveness of different cultures that doesn't seem as strong to me in Australia. DOWNSIDES: Most third world countries are rife with corruption. Get arrested in Bali and you better be ready to pony up some hard cash to the officials or else face worse consequences. Health services are also really bad, in terms of emergency services. I routinely get dental work done in Bali, but if I broke a limb or got appendicitis or an infection, I would far rather be back in an Australian hospital. Language can also be a factor, I guess. I speak Malaysian and English, so getting around in Bali is not really an issue for me (Indonesian is 99% similar to Malaysian). However, I would struggle a bit in places like Vietnam or Laos. Bali, and especially Ubud, are being ironically killed by their popularity. A LOT of local Australians I know go there to co-work for weeks at a time, and unfortunately, with tourism also comes nasty things like higher crime and fraud. Bali is becoming less and less safe as some of the less savoury locals learn how to manipulate and extort visitors. The old days of being humbugged by stall holders at the beach seems quaint. The newer operations on unsuspecting tourists are far more sinister. Conclusion - I don't mean to put anyone off. Bali is a beautiful place, and Ubud is definitely worth a visit at least once, to work at with your laptop, or for a company retreat. But I wouldn't pencil it in as a 'bucket list' destination. There are plenty of other Asian countries that can offer the same, or if not better opportunities. For those used to the convenience and modernity of the US, perhaps Singapore or Penang (Malaysia) might be a better place to experience the difference in cultures?

9y ago

scurvy 9y ago

Must be about ten years since I was last in Bali, but I distinctly remember paying both an entrance and exit visa when visiting. Only Bali downside, the beachy parts can get overrun with Australians acting the way Americans do in Tijuana.

froogler 9y ago
There are no exit visas anymore and depending on where you are from, you may also need no visas for short visits.
- scurvy 9y ago
  Great to hear!

King-Aaron 9y ago

Just a side-note, there is a lot of active volcanic activity throughout Indonesia. Currently pretty much all flights in and out of Bali are cancelled due to Mt Agung being on the brink of eruption. It's not one of those things you'd need to worry about every day of course, but it could inconvenience you if you had to travel and got caught out by it.

theonething 9y ago

> I can't do anything about bats pooping in my bathroom That may be a dealbreaker for me.

roadbeats 9y ago
You can keep the lights open during the night then :)

jtchang 9y ago

Not to discourage the article but just because people smile in SE asia a lot doesn't necessarily mean they are happy all the time. A lot of it is cultural as well.

geomark 9y ago
They may not even be nice people. I've seen young hooligans smiling at packpackers while they were discussing what good stuff they might have in their backpacks. The backpackers didn't understand the language so they just smiled back.
- hbarka 9y ago
  Yeah right
hellofunk 9y ago
Completely agree. It is a cliche and somewhat prejudice to talk about the "Thai smile" or the smiling in other asian nations. These cliches are informed by foreigners who impose their own motivation for smiling onto that of a very different culture. It's not unlike how I often hear non-Americans talk about how friendly all Americans are, simply because when you do things like get a meal at a restaurant, the waiter will ask, "Can I get anything else for you?" Well, to me they are just doing their job but to some people from different places, the waiter is being unusually friendly to ask that.
- roadbeats 9y ago
  Imagine this; you leave your home and say good morning to your neighbor smiling and sharing positive energy every morning. But you're right; a person might smile at you when he is actually carry negative feelings. For example, my landlord is a greedy guy and he sometimes wants to rip me off and he also smiles :)
bodegajed 9y ago
What does that mean though? That thier smiles can be fake. I dunno. Slow island tropical life could be nice on people's mood though.

peterburkimsher 9y ago

Probably better to wait until the ash from the volcano clears. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42147422 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42147422 On a more long-term note, though, visa policies are much more friendly in the East than the West. "Indonesia doesn't require visa for Turkish citizens so my family can visit me anytime they want without going through visa application processes. This is one of the reasons I left US; my family and friends always wanted to visit me when I lived in Oakland but they wouldn't go through the expensive and humiliating visa application process." I currently live and work for a local company in Kaohsiung, Taiwan, which runs a factory making microSD memory cards. The salary is low, but the living costs (food & rent) are very low, so I end up saving over 50% of my salary each month. It's comfortable. People who work over the Internet get paid even more, but they have to risk working illegally on tourist visas instead of having an Alien Resident Card. I'd try to stay longer if the government would do something about the education system, dual citizenship, military service requirement, and air pollution. Those reasons make me think it's better to go elsewhere to start a family. This is a nice place to be young though.

tim333 9y ago
Re the ash, I'm in Kuta just now and it's not really noticeable apart from the airport being closed about half the time.
philliphaydon 9y ago
> I'd try to stay longer if the government would do something about the education system, dual citizenship, military service requirement, and air pollution. Those reasons make me think it's better to go elsewhere to start a family. This is a nice place to be young though. Are these issues in Taiwan? I haven't been to Kaohsiung (except when flying back to Singapore) but my wife is Taiwanese so I've traveled to Taiwan a lot. Taiwan care a LOT about education and the people are pretty highly educated AFAIK, They also allow dual citizenship (which a lot of countries in Asia don't), granted it's impossible to get citizenship in Taiwan. And air pollution is no better/worse than say, Sydney - Australia.
- peterburkimsher 9y ago

Alex3917 9y ago

I spent a few days there a couple years ago. Ubud is a cool place, with incredibly good and cheap food and housing. But the reason that costs of living are cheaper may not be entirely disconnected from the fact that life feels cheaper in general. Not only is there currently a rabies epidemic among the wild dogs that are everywhere, but there are a million other random ways to get killed, everything from falling into giant unmarked holes in the middle of the sidewalk to getting hit by motorbikes.

kayoone 9y ago
> But the reason that costs of living are cheaper may not be entirely disconnected from the fact that life feels cheaper in general Of course the low costs of living are related to the general economic situation, most people there are very poor by western standards and Bali infrastructure is at it's limits and has poor safety.
roadbeats 9y ago
It's overly pessimistic view but if you didn't like it then you can consider other parts of the world. May be Patagonia, or Kenya ? I never visited both of these countries but would love to hear from other engineers.
RowanH 9y ago
I spent 3 weeks there in October with friends and thoroughly loved it, in the same breath also loved coming home. [yes...I can drink water out the tap and it won't try to kill me!]. I think the dogs have improved in the last few years with a concerted effort to clean things up in that regard [errr.. don't want to think what that actually means]. We spent 10 days on the Sayan Terrace area in Ubud and could certainly see the mental wellness qualities of coding overlooking a stunning vista. That said the latency was pretty terrible back to servers located in the states (quite iffy internet) + power up and down; as opposed to North Kuta where at least internet was more solid. If younger me were trying to do something hidden way for a while coding; and location didn't make a difference, and you wanted to limit costs... it certainly would be a consideration. Stunning beautiful country, with a lot of litter, a healthy dose of asia-traffic-chaos, lovely, lovely people, cheap cost of living. You would just have to have a bit of a strong constitution about the odd thing you'd see. Of course, you'd have to not get sucked into getting into Island time and loosing productivity to Bintangs...

sho 9y ago

The article doesn't mention anything about the author's visa? For indonesia you can get a VOA for 30 days free or 60 days for $50 but you can't stay longer than that without an APEC card or a KITAS (work permit - hard to get). Visa policies are certainly more relaxed in SEA than the western world but you can't just hang out all year, working nonetheless, and expect no issues.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
roadbeats 9y ago
You can get three months social visa via agents and extend it bunch of times. This is what I did before Kitas. I just added this info to the visa section.
- sho 9y ago
  Hm, the social visa doesn't allow you to work. Of course you still can but you're running a risk. Last year there were a bunch of people deported at short notice after immigration raids, including westerners. And you need a local to invite you. Still, good to explain how it's an option. I also love Bali, so long as it's as far away from Kuta as possible...
amaks 9y ago
I think it does, check the Free-Visa Policy section.
- sho 9y ago
  Like I said, that free visa is for 1 month. You can renew for 1 month if you pay $50 on entry. The free visa you're not allowed to work. So this guy is either there illegally, is doing visa runs to Singapore every month or two, or has some other visa that I'm curious about. Source: lived there for a while and did a LOT of visa runs
  - 9y ago

tvalentius 9y ago

for those who are interested, we also have an active dev community here in Bali. There is Facebook Developer Circles, BaliJS, Python Bali, etc https://www.facebook.com/groups/devcbali https://www.facebook.com/groups/devcbali http://balijs.com/ http://balijs.com/

hahah 9y ago

where is the treasure in yhe gold mine bruh,