4 ms·

It's extremely weird reading his reactions on Twitter - either he's putting a very brave face on it, or he's completely unfazed by (yet another) awful self-own.

by smcl 9y ago

It's extremely weird reading his reactions on Twitter - either he's putting a very brave face on it, or he's completely unfazed by (yet another) awful self-own. I never know if James O'keefe and his ilk are really into this cause (not sure exactly what, something vaguely conservative?) or if they're just grifters trying to make a buck by whatever means necessary

kevinburke 9y ago
I don't think he cares. The goal is to muddy the waters and make it harder to do real journalism. The story on right wing websites tomorrow will probably be "one of the accusers was obviously lying - this raises questions about the other ones," never mind the lying one was paid by a right wing site.
- microcolonel 9y ago
  > I don't think he cares. The goal is to muddy the waters and make it harder to do real journalism. I think, generally, the result has been that it's harder to do fake journalism; at least when it comes to the undercover work.
  - marcopolitik 9y ago
    I think it's a bit more complex than that. It's harder to do fake journalism that is liberal or anti-authoritarian; but it's easier than ever to successfully distribute authoritarian and conservative propaganda.
charcoal23 9y ago
It's probably both, but leaning much more towards the grifting side of things. There's something about conservative politics in the US which encourages grifters and cons. When my very Republican stepfather fell into dementia, I helped my mom monitor his mail so he'd stop spending so much money on things he didn't understand. It was a deluge of stuff every day. Often from groups I had never heard of who wanted money to stop Sharia law or stop the "war on Christmas" or whatever the big conservative cause was that day. And even the mainstream GOP got into the act. More than once, a FedEx envelope would show up with a plea that everything was doomed unless a check was overnighted. Once the GOP FedEx solicitation contained a letter accusing my stepfather of no longer being a member of the Republican Party, but he could clear up this misunderstanding by writing a check.
- ZeroGravitas 9y ago
  A great, in-depth article on this is here: https://thebaffler.com/salvos/the-long-con https://thebaffler.com/salvos/the-long-con The conservative movement is elder abuse on a grand scale.
- fleitz 9y ago
  And on the flip side it's Donate or get deported. Scare tactics work, both sides use it.
  - fmihaila 9y ago
    Except the stated policy of this executive is to deport large numbers of people, whereas there is no danger of Christmas being outlawed, or of Sharia becoming the law of the land.
    - fleitz 9y ago
      That’s funny given that deportations are down 80% since the previous admin, also far less wall has been built than the previous admin was able to build on a yearly basis... Wouldn’t you characterize that as scaremongering given the facts?
      - fmihaila 9y ago
        Certainly not. The only things keeping the official policy from progressing faster are the utter incompetence of the administration and the relative sanity of the court system. Both can change.
r00fus 9y ago
Why is it a self-own? If his objective (cast shade on real allegations) is achieved, then he's doing fine, he'll be paid by his funders (and protected). He is a political hitman and stalking horse.
- sanderjd 9y ago
  It's a self-own because this doesn't cast shade on real allegations, it does the opposite by showing that the WaPo is doing diligence on the allegations. It probably doesn't matter though: folks who trust the WaPo already know they do diligence, and folks who don't trust them won't care.
  - r00fus 9y ago
    My point being, that the intersection set of group "readers of this WaPo piece" and "voters of Alabama" are already polarized such that the gain from the in-group (i.e., Trump supporters in Alabama) might be greater than publication of the own-goal. Consider: what if O'Keefe is just a decoy?
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
- smcl 9y ago
  Because it’s yet another poorly executed bumbling failure. People talk like O’Keefe is some American version of Vladislav Surkov playing four dimensional chess and that we are all falling into his little trap. But they’re just too incompetent to warrant the comparison. If they could execute any of their bizarre little pranks then they would maybe deserve some of this and I’d maybe consider them as some kind of threat. But tthey come undone in the most hilarious ways, like leaving a voicemail for one of their marks and forget to hang up and immediately start talking about the scam they are conducting. https://twitter.com/willsommer/status/935274569778319360 https://twitter.com/willsommer/status/935274569778319360 I’d be quite happy for his funders to continue wasting their money on things like this

by smcl 9y ago

kevinburke 9y ago

I don't think he cares. The goal is to muddy the waters and make it harder to do real journalism. The story on right wing websites tomorrow will probably be "one of the accusers was obviously lying - this raises questions about the other ones," never mind the lying one was paid by a right wing site.

microcolonel 9y ago
> I don't think he cares. The goal is to muddy the waters and make it harder to do real journalism. I think, generally, the result has been that it's harder to do fake journalism; at least when it comes to the undercover work.
- marcopolitik 9y ago
  I think it's a bit more complex than that. It's harder to do fake journalism that is liberal or anti-authoritarian; but it's easier than ever to successfully distribute authoritarian and conservative propaganda.

charcoal23 9y ago

It's probably both, but leaning much more towards the grifting side of things. There's something about conservative politics in the US which encourages grifters and cons. When my very Republican stepfather fell into dementia, I helped my mom monitor his mail so he'd stop spending so much money on things he didn't understand. It was a deluge of stuff every day. Often from groups I had never heard of who wanted money to stop Sharia law or stop the "war on Christmas" or whatever the big conservative cause was that day. And even the mainstream GOP got into the act. More than once, a FedEx envelope would show up with a plea that everything was doomed unless a check was overnighted. Once the GOP FedEx solicitation contained a letter accusing my stepfather of no longer being a member of the Republican Party, but he could clear up this misunderstanding by writing a check.

ZeroGravitas 9y ago
A great, in-depth article on this is here: https://thebaffler.com/salvos/the-long-con https://thebaffler.com/salvos/the-long-con The conservative movement is elder abuse on a grand scale.
fleitz 9y ago
And on the flip side it's Donate or get deported. Scare tactics work, both sides use it.
- fmihaila 9y ago
  Except the stated policy of this executive is to deport large numbers of people, whereas there is no danger of Christmas being outlawed, or of Sharia becoming the law of the land.
  - fleitz 9y ago
    That’s funny given that deportations are down 80% since the previous admin, also far less wall has been built than the previous admin was able to build on a yearly basis... Wouldn’t you characterize that as scaremongering given the facts?
    - fmihaila 9y ago
      Certainly not. The only things keeping the official policy from progressing faster are the utter incompetence of the administration and the relative sanity of the court system. Both can change.

r00fus 9y ago

Why is it a self-own? If his objective (cast shade on real allegations) is achieved, then he's doing fine, he'll be paid by his funders (and protected). He is a political hitman and stalking horse.

sanderjd 9y ago
It's a self-own because this doesn't cast shade on real allegations, it does the opposite by showing that the WaPo is doing diligence on the allegations. It probably doesn't matter though: folks who trust the WaPo already know they do diligence, and folks who don't trust them won't care.
- r00fus 9y ago
  My point being, that the intersection set of group "readers of this WaPo piece" and "voters of Alabama" are already polarized such that the gain from the in-group (i.e., Trump supporters in Alabama) might be greater than publication of the own-goal. Consider: what if O'Keefe is just a decoy?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
smcl 9y ago
Because it’s yet another poorly executed bumbling failure. People talk like O’Keefe is some American version of Vladislav Surkov playing four dimensional chess and that we are all falling into his little trap. But they’re just too incompetent to warrant the comparison. If they could execute any of their bizarre little pranks then they would maybe deserve some of this and I’d maybe consider them as some kind of threat. But tthey come undone in the most hilarious ways, like leaving a voicemail for one of their marks and forget to hang up and immediately start talking about the scam they are conducting. https://twitter.com/willsommer/status/935274569778319360 https://twitter.com/willsommer/status/935274569778319360 I’d be quite happy for his funders to continue wasting their money on things like this