4 ms·

I'm glad you're open and reasonable. Now ask yourself some questions: 1) Did you see any other "civilian" vehicles or civilians on the street in the footage?

I'm glad you're open and reasonable. Now ask yourself some questions: 1) Did you see any other "civilian" vehicles or civilians on the street in the footage? No. Where do you think the "civilians" and their vehicles were? The answer is, they were at home, hunkered down, because they knew there was fighting going on. There had been fighting going on in this neighborhood for weeks. That's a "reasonable" reaction to living in a fucking war zone. That's what I'd do. That's probably what you'd do. And if I had kids, it sure as fuck is what I would do. The last thing I would do is put my kids in a car and drive around in it as some kind of a mobile aid station. Even if my best friend was sitting their in the street, bleeding out, I wouldn't risk my kids lives to pick him up in a war zone. Furthermore, if you watched the entire video, and I suspect you didn't, you'd find that the same Apache crew was tracking another black and unmarked "civilian" vehicle just a few minutes before they fired on the Reuters journalists and guess what? That other vehicile (which may have been the same one) dropped off armed insurgents into a firefight. So yes, Apache crew belief may have been incorrect -- though there is ample evidence to support that it was correct -- but it wasn't "unreasonable." Listen, I think you're angry about war. War sucks. It's terrible. And I'm glad most of the fighting seems to be over in Iraq and that we'll get the hell out of there soon. But Assange edited that video to make US forces look like murders, which isn't the truth. They are just normal guys doing a very, very difficult job, and who sometimes make mistakes. You want to be angry, get angry at Bush and Obama. Wikileaks got it wrong, intentionally.

mcantelon 16y ago
I don't recall any radio talk about suspecting the van of being insurgent, but I'll rewatch the unedited version of "Collateral Murder" for the reference. Absolutely, I'm angry about the war. And, yes, Bush and Obama are to blame. But popular opposition to the war won't materialize unless people see the results of it, which is what Assange realizes. Media had much more freedom to operate during Viet Nam than in Iraq or Afghanistan (and, additionally, there have been cases where the US military appears to have deliberately killed journalists, such as Al jazeera's Tariq Ayoub). Assange's case would be much harder to make if real journalism in those theatres was possible (in which case information, such as the fact that the US military killed hundreds during demonstrations in Afghanistan [http://bit.ly/daeWlg http://bit.ly/daeWlg], might otherwise see the light of day).
- fdschoeneman 16y ago
  Please do watch the unedited video. Respectfully, there is much popular opposition to the war, it has materialized, and there is plenty of photographic and video evidence of exactly how much war sucks. If you have evidence that the military deliberately killed a journalist, please share it with me. And respectfully, the military has done a good job of helping journalists do their job. Mike Yon, who was openly critical of General McChrystal (and frankly kind of unprofessional in how he did it) has spent a long time in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and is apparently now on his way back for yet another embed. Also, I think it might be worth pointing out that while the US military often does get it wrong -- causing collateral damage that is sometimes disproportionate to the tactical objective, and does kill innocent civilians, I have yet to see a case where killing innocent civilians was their actual goal. This is in stark contrast to the people the US military is fighting against -- Al Quaeda remnants and some elements of the Taliban -- who target civilians intentionally. Personally I don't think the amount of effort we're expending in Afghanistan is justified based on the expected future benefit, and after a long time supporting our mission there I'm ready to pull our forces out. But Julian Assange is doing his best to make sure a) America looks worse than it is, b) that American soldiers have a harder job to do and c) anyone Afghans who have reached out to us in the past are more likely to pay a price for it in the future. If Assange had taken the time to sanitize the documents he released of any information regarding names and villages of sources, I'd have more sympathy for him. Instead he stupidly and needlessly put their lives in danger, and now wants to blame the US military for their deaths. He's a piece of shit.

mcantelon 16y ago

I don't recall any radio talk about suspecting the van of being insurgent, but I'll rewatch the unedited version of "Collateral Murder" for the reference. Absolutely, I'm angry about the war. And, yes, Bush and Obama are to blame. But popular opposition to the war won't materialize unless people see the results of it, which is what Assange realizes. Media had much more freedom to operate during Viet Nam than in Iraq or Afghanistan (and, additionally, there have been cases where the US military appears to have deliberately killed journalists, such as Al jazeera's Tariq Ayoub). Assange's case would be much harder to make if real journalism in those theatres was possible (in which case information, such as the fact that the US military killed hundreds during demonstrations in Afghanistan [http://bit.ly/daeWlg http://bit.ly/daeWlg], might otherwise see the light of day).

fdschoeneman 16y ago
Please do watch the unedited video. Respectfully, there is much popular opposition to the war, it has materialized, and there is plenty of photographic and video evidence of exactly how much war sucks. If you have evidence that the military deliberately killed a journalist, please share it with me. And respectfully, the military has done a good job of helping journalists do their job. Mike Yon, who was openly critical of General McChrystal (and frankly kind of unprofessional in how he did it) has spent a long time in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and is apparently now on his way back for yet another embed. Also, I think it might be worth pointing out that while the US military often does get it wrong -- causing collateral damage that is sometimes disproportionate to the tactical objective, and does kill innocent civilians, I have yet to see a case where killing innocent civilians was their actual goal. This is in stark contrast to the people the US military is fighting against -- Al Quaeda remnants and some elements of the Taliban -- who target civilians intentionally. Personally I don't think the amount of effort we're expending in Afghanistan is justified based on the expected future benefit, and after a long time supporting our mission there I'm ready to pull our forces out. But Julian Assange is doing his best to make sure a) America looks worse than it is, b) that American soldiers have a harder job to do and c) anyone Afghans who have reached out to us in the past are more likely to pay a price for it in the future. If Assange had taken the time to sanitize the documents he released of any information regarding names and villages of sources, I'd have more sympathy for him. Instead he stupidly and needlessly put their lives in danger, and now wants to blame the US military for their deaths. He's a piece of shit.