4 ms·

> The iMac Pro will have an ARM co-processor: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/19/imac-pro-a10-chip-hey-s.. https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/19/imac-pro-a10-c

> The iMac Pro will have an ARM co-processor: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/19/imac-pro-a10-chip-hey-s.. https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/19/imac-pro-a10-chip-hey-s.... - Arguably for "Hey Siri" and other mobile-inspired functionality, but wouldn't it be interesting if it were also an ARM-on-the-desktop beachhead? The current MBP already has ARM: https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/28/apples-new-intel-driven-macbooks-have-a-secondary-arm-processor-that-runs-touch-id-and-security/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/28/apples-new-intel-driven-ma... But this is similar to ARM (or MIPS or whatever) cores that already exist in all sort of peripherals (what's in your Wifi chipset? Bluetooth? SMC?), so it's nothing new. I'm dismissive of any talk of switching conventional Intel-based desktop/laptops to ARM. It's not equivalent to Apple's switch from PPC to Intel, because in that case there was a clear performance advantage. ARM may have the performance-per-watt crown on the low-power end, but Intel maintains the pure-performance lead everywhere else. Conventional desktops still care about performance (and if you don't, likely you can switch to a Chromebook), and there aren't any advantages to switching a heavily Intel-ISA-dependent desktop ecosystem (macOS/Windows) to ARM.

bryanlarsen 9y ago
"Intel maintains the pure-performance lead everywhere else" The point of the article is that ThunderX is claimed to be faster than Xeon Gold for HPC applications.
- monocasa 9y ago
  But no where near single threaded performance.
- philipkglass 9y ago
  I see one HPC application where ThunderX 30% is faster (TeaLeaf). For the others shown, it's neck-and-neck with the Xeon. Reaching parity with Xeon is admittedly impressive even on this subset of applications, but it doesn't look consistently faster based on the information presented. I'm personally interested in how this system stacks up for quantum chemistry (GAMESS, NWChem, PySCF, Psi4...) and I hope that more benchmarks will become available soon.
monocasa 9y ago
While I agree with you that we almost certainly won't see an ARM macintosh, I wouldn't be surprised to see an ARM laptop exclusively running iOS at some point. We probably will see an ARM core with single threaded performance in Intel's realm once Intel is fully backed against the wall that is the end of Moore's law. It'll probably always be slower than an intel core if it has to emulate x64, but the iOS ecosystem gives Apple control of it's on chips in a world after the commodification high performance chips.
- Cyberdog 9y ago
  > an ARM laptop exclusively running iOS So an iPad with a Bluetooth keyboard? Apple already sells those!
  - monocasa 9y ago
    It's a little more than a stretch to refer to a current iPad with Bluetooth keyboard as a laptop. But sure, it shows how Apple is inching in that direction.
    - Cyberdog 9y ago
      Well, it's a stretch for me to consider iOS as a usable laptop OS, so I guess we're both stretching. :P But to play the devil's advocate, how is it not sufficiently laptop-ish for you? Because the keyboard is detachable? Because it has a touchscreen?
      - monocasa 9y ago
        I think it will morph into a usable laptop OS as Apple pushes it into that direction. > But to play the devil's advocate, how is it not sufficiently laptop-ish for you? Because the keyboard is detachable? Because it has a touchscreen? Lack of a mouse equivalent. Having to move your hands off the keyboard to do anything other than type is a pain in the ass.
Cyberdog 9y ago
I care about performance in my phone too, so where can I buy an Intel phone? The truth is that my phone doesn't have to be the fastest; it just has to be fast enough in balance with other factors important to me (size, battery life, etc). And the same goes with my laptop. I currently have an MBP with an i7 processor, and I'm a web developer - it's overkill. I also play games with it now and then, but it's clear that the iGPU is the bottleneck there and not the processor. Very rarely do I do heavy compiling or video encoding or other CPU-maxing tasks on this thing. So would I trade the i7 for an A-series plus a couple more hours of battery life and/or a lower (or at least not further increased, damn it Apple) price? Yes, I would take that trade, and probably never suffer for it.
- hawski 9y ago
  Why you bought a laptop with an i7 then in the first place? There are already more energy efficient alternatives - i5, i3, core m. I have a theory that probably when Apple will release a laptop with their own SoC it will be more expensive...
  - Cyberdog 9y ago
    Because it checked the other boxes I was looking for with regards to screen size, memory, and so on. Perhaps an A-series laptop would be more expensive for consumers (damn it, Apple), but I don't think it would cost more for Apple to manufacture, since they can do so much more of it in house.
- skykooler 9y ago
  Asus Zenfone smartphones use Intel processors.
- grkvlt 9y ago
  I've had Intel phones running Android. For example the Asus ZenFone as mentioned below, also the Lenovo K80. [0] I also used to have a Motorola RAZR ages ago, that I think was one of the first Intel powered phones? Not just phones, watches with x86 series Intel CPUs exist! The Tag Modular 45 [2] has an Intel Atom Z3400 [3] in it... 0. https://www.gsmarena.com/lenovo_k80-7216.php https://www.gsmarena.com/lenovo_k80-7216.php 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_RAZR_i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_RAZR_i 2. https://www.tagheuer.com/en-us/watches/tag-heuer-connected-modular-45-sbf8a8013-80bh0933 https://www.tagheuer.com/en-us/watches/tag-heuer-connected-m... 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_(system_on_chip) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_(system_on_chip)
agumonkey 9y ago
ARM is a bit of a misnomer, there are many segments, Cortex M, Cortex A. Only the "A" series could be considered intel/amd class I guess. But yes, arm cores are everywhere.

bryanlarsen 9y ago

"Intel maintains the pure-performance lead everywhere else" The point of the article is that ThunderX is claimed to be faster than Xeon Gold for HPC applications.

monocasa 9y ago
But no where near single threaded performance.
philipkglass 9y ago
I see one HPC application where ThunderX 30% is faster (TeaLeaf). For the others shown, it's neck-and-neck with the Xeon. Reaching parity with Xeon is admittedly impressive even on this subset of applications, but it doesn't look consistently faster based on the information presented. I'm personally interested in how this system stacks up for quantum chemistry (GAMESS, NWChem, PySCF, Psi4...) and I hope that more benchmarks will become available soon.

monocasa 9y ago

While I agree with you that we almost certainly won't see an ARM macintosh, I wouldn't be surprised to see an ARM laptop exclusively running iOS at some point. We probably will see an ARM core with single threaded performance in Intel's realm once Intel is fully backed against the wall that is the end of Moore's law. It'll probably always be slower than an intel core if it has to emulate x64, but the iOS ecosystem gives Apple control of it's on chips in a world after the commodification high performance chips.

Cyberdog 9y ago
> an ARM laptop exclusively running iOS So an iPad with a Bluetooth keyboard? Apple already sells those!
- monocasa 9y ago
  It's a little more than a stretch to refer to a current iPad with Bluetooth keyboard as a laptop. But sure, it shows how Apple is inching in that direction.
  - Cyberdog 9y ago
    Well, it's a stretch for me to consider iOS as a usable laptop OS, so I guess we're both stretching. :P But to play the devil's advocate, how is it not sufficiently laptop-ish for you? Because the keyboard is detachable? Because it has a touchscreen?
    - monocasa 9y ago
      I think it will morph into a usable laptop OS as Apple pushes it into that direction. > But to play the devil's advocate, how is it not sufficiently laptop-ish for you? Because the keyboard is detachable? Because it has a touchscreen? Lack of a mouse equivalent. Having to move your hands off the keyboard to do anything other than type is a pain in the ass.

Cyberdog 9y ago

I care about performance in my phone too, so where can I buy an Intel phone? The truth is that my phone doesn't have to be the fastest; it just has to be fast enough in balance with other factors important to me (size, battery life, etc). And the same goes with my laptop. I currently have an MBP with an i7 processor, and I'm a web developer - it's overkill. I also play games with it now and then, but it's clear that the iGPU is the bottleneck there and not the processor. Very rarely do I do heavy compiling or video encoding or other CPU-maxing tasks on this thing. So would I trade the i7 for an A-series plus a couple more hours of battery life and/or a lower (or at least not further increased, damn it Apple) price? Yes, I would take that trade, and probably never suffer for it.

hawski 9y ago
Why you bought a laptop with an i7 then in the first place? There are already more energy efficient alternatives - i5, i3, core m. I have a theory that probably when Apple will release a laptop with their own SoC it will be more expensive...
- Cyberdog 9y ago
  Because it checked the other boxes I was looking for with regards to screen size, memory, and so on. Perhaps an A-series laptop would be more expensive for consumers (damn it, Apple), but I don't think it would cost more for Apple to manufacture, since they can do so much more of it in house.
skykooler 9y ago
Asus Zenfone smartphones use Intel processors.
grkvlt 9y ago
I've had Intel phones running Android. For example the Asus ZenFone as mentioned below, also the Lenovo K80. [0] I also used to have a Motorola RAZR ages ago, that I think was one of the first Intel powered phones? Not just phones, watches with x86 series Intel CPUs exist! The Tag Modular 45 [2] has an Intel Atom Z3400 [3] in it... 0. https://www.gsmarena.com/lenovo_k80-7216.php https://www.gsmarena.com/lenovo_k80-7216.php 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_RAZR_i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_RAZR_i 2. https://www.tagheuer.com/en-us/watches/tag-heuer-connected-modular-45-sbf8a8013-80bh0933 https://www.tagheuer.com/en-us/watches/tag-heuer-connected-m... 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_(system_on_chip) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_(system_on_chip)

agumonkey 9y ago

ARM is a bit of a misnomer, there are many segments, Cortex M, Cortex A. Only the "A" series could be considered intel/amd class I guess. But yes, arm cores are everywhere.