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There need not be an objective morality for us to bring our values into our politics. Politics is the way we make collective decisions about things of mutual i

by hsod 9y ago

There need not be an objective morality for us to bring our values into our politics. Politics is the way we make collective decisions about things of mutual importance. What's important to you? What would a society full of people who refuse to advocate for their own values out of a sense of meta-ethical relativism look like?

ogre_magi 9y ago
I'm not telling you not to bring your values into politics. I'm not some kind of relativism evangelist. That's a strawman that multiple commenters here are standing up. This all started with one commenter saying that his outgroup is uniquely evil, and me replying that it was a matter of perspective. Both sides get to bring their values into politics.
- hsod 9y ago
  Saying evil is a matter of perspective is relativism.
  - ogre_magi 9y ago
    This is going to drift into a problem of definitions, as value conflicts often can. If your deontology considers me "evil," there's nothing I can do about that. I'm not going to complain about your use of the word. People are going to have conflicts, and some of them are going to become holy wars. Best of luck in the wars to come.
    - hsod 9y ago
      "People are going to have conflicts, and some of them are going to become holy wars. Best of luck in the wars to come." What does this mean? I'm genuinely interested in your perspective, not trying to play gotcha or argue semantics.
hitekker 9y ago
If I recall correctly, the leadership of LessWrong espouses "Politics is the mindkiller". Consequently, their followers will find all manners of justification to avoid applying their rationality to political subjects, in the guise of some holier-than-thou enlightenment. Ironically, this actually helps to sustain their membership. Broaching politics would risk schisms within their enervated movement, as a group who believes "Global Warming is irrational" but wouldn't otherwise discuss it, would be forced to confront an opposing group which does.

by hsod 9y ago

ogre_magi 9y ago

I'm not telling you not to bring your values into politics. I'm not some kind of relativism evangelist. That's a strawman that multiple commenters here are standing up. This all started with one commenter saying that his outgroup is uniquely evil, and me replying that it was a matter of perspective. Both sides get to bring their values into politics.

hsod 9y ago
Saying evil is a matter of perspective is relativism.
- ogre_magi 9y ago
  This is going to drift into a problem of definitions, as value conflicts often can. If your deontology considers me "evil," there's nothing I can do about that. I'm not going to complain about your use of the word. People are going to have conflicts, and some of them are going to become holy wars. Best of luck in the wars to come.
  - hsod 9y ago
    "People are going to have conflicts, and some of them are going to become holy wars. Best of luck in the wars to come." What does this mean? I'm genuinely interested in your perspective, not trying to play gotcha or argue semantics.

hitekker 9y ago

If I recall correctly, the leadership of LessWrong espouses "Politics is the mindkiller". Consequently, their followers will find all manners of justification to avoid applying their rationality to political subjects, in the guise of some holier-than-thou enlightenment. Ironically, this actually helps to sustain their membership. Broaching politics would risk schisms within their enervated movement, as a group who believes "Global Warming is irrational" but wouldn't otherwise discuss it, would be forced to confront an opposing group which does.