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When an Amazon warehouse opened in my area relatively recently it seemed that many people were scrambling like crazy to try to get a job there. These seemed to

When an Amazon warehouse opened in my area relatively recently it seemed that many people were scrambling like crazy to try to get a job there. These seemed to be people who are poorly educated and low skilled but clearly the Amazon job represented a step up for them. I'm not saying that there aren't issues but clearly working for Amazon is still a better alternative than their other options. I personally know of someone who was basically skipping out on child support payments before starting work at Amazon and now is making the payments.

jjeaff 9y ago
It's the same for lots of low wage jobs. I know people that work at Walmart that I can't imagine being able to hold down a job anywhere else.
holydude 9y ago
I am against excessive taxation or overregulation but companies like Amazon ...no really any company...should be responsible for treating the society fair. Amazon is a behemoth that grew because of its ruthless behavior towards its competitors. I am sure there is more to life than constant race to the bottom when your average american has to compete with someone from china or africa.
- sneak 9y ago
  How can you treat someone unfairly when they are not compelled to interact with you at all? Every single person who has a job with Amazon is there because they choose to be.
  - pfortuny 9y ago
    Come on, you are really simplifying. That argument was used in London at the beginning of the XIX century. We all know now it is flawed.
    - tnzn 9y ago
      Except neoliberals and right-wing libertarians (for most part), as their idiology is based on the belief of an unaltered freedom of choice afaik. The good old myth of pure freedom of choice is not dying anytime soon.
  - holydude 9y ago
    The same way we fight against sexual harassment we can just raise the standard for everyone.
  - jmcmichael 9y ago
    When the alternative is destitution, homelessness, and starvation the choice to work in a hellish occupation can hardly be called 'voluntary'. Many who find themselves in a situation where a job in one of these hellholes is an attractive proposition are in those types of desperate life circumstances.
    - sneak 9y ago
      I hadn’t realized Amazon had established a monopoly on unskilled labor positions. A real shame for society, then.
  - DanBC 9y ago
    > Every single person who has a job with Amazon is there because they choose to be. That's not necessarily the case in the UK where people claiming unemployment benefits are compelled to spend 35 hours a week searching and applying for jobs. Someone in that regime may well have applied to work at Amazon because they would have had a benefit sanction otherwise.
- jbooth 9y ago
  Why should they? Corporations are licensed sociopaths. That's by design, it's not a bug, we get a lot of value out of the regulated sociopathy. If you're against regulation yet expect companies to work towards the higher social good regardless of profit motive, prepare to be disappointed on both counts.
  - holydude 9y ago
    Nah. I understand how this all works. I am a bit naive and hope that someday we will find a way to make everyone happy :-)
krapp 9y ago
You'd be surprised, though. I work at an Amazon fulfillment center near Austin and I wouldn't say that the people working there seem poorly educated or skilled, at least not less so than average. They're mostly working at Amazon for the benefits and possibility of extra cash during peak. Also bear in mind that, because of what Amazon pays at the bottom tiers, many of these people also have a second job as well, so it's not necessarily the case that this is the only job they could have. There are just too many people working in these jobs for that to be the case.
- burntrelish1273 9y ago
  Cool. How are working conditions: organized, chaotic or brutal? Are there reasonable accommodations for the reality of life's un/certainties like doctors appointments, family/dependent emergencies and similar? Are workers paid a living wage for the area? And what's the prevalence or seasonality of CamperForce workers?
  - krapp 9y ago
    >How are working conditions: organized, chaotic or brutal? Chaotic, and something less than brutal. The first two months I worked there were the most painful of my life, but now I find it more tedious than physically strenuous. Dehydration and repetitive stress injuries are a problem, as is environmental noise, at least where I am. I wouldn't discount anyone's horror stories about working at Amazon, though. It's a big network, and I'm in a large, modern facility with partial automation so I'm probably in a better position than a lot of people. >Are there reasonable accommodations for the reality of life's un/certainties like doctors appointments, family/dependent emergencies and similar? Not always. They allow for emergency time off, sick days, etc like any other company, but they will also sometimes not give much forewarning about mandatory extra time, since that's determined by "business need," and can last indefinitely if Amazon decides. I've seen many complaints from employees with children/other jobs/obligations about it. >Are workers paid a living wage for the area? Amazon pays below the cost of living here, but higher than some other entry level jobs, and justifies that by claiming the other benefits they offer make them competitive. As a result (and very likely by design), many employees are forced to work voluntary overtime to make ends meet, or find a second job. >And what's the prevalence or seasonality of CamperForce workers? I've never seen them, but I've only ever worked in one location.

jjeaff 9y ago

It's the same for lots of low wage jobs. I know people that work at Walmart that I can't imagine being able to hold down a job anywhere else.

holydude 9y ago

I am against excessive taxation or overregulation but companies like Amazon ...no really any company...should be responsible for treating the society fair. Amazon is a behemoth that grew because of its ruthless behavior towards its competitors. I am sure there is more to life than constant race to the bottom when your average american has to compete with someone from china or africa.

sneak 9y ago
How can you treat someone unfairly when they are not compelled to interact with you at all? Every single person who has a job with Amazon is there because they choose to be.
- pfortuny 9y ago
  Come on, you are really simplifying. That argument was used in London at the beginning of the XIX century. We all know now it is flawed.
  - tnzn 9y ago
    Except neoliberals and right-wing libertarians (for most part), as their idiology is based on the belief of an unaltered freedom of choice afaik. The good old myth of pure freedom of choice is not dying anytime soon.
- holydude 9y ago
  The same way we fight against sexual harassment we can just raise the standard for everyone.
- jmcmichael 9y ago
  When the alternative is destitution, homelessness, and starvation the choice to work in a hellish occupation can hardly be called 'voluntary'. Many who find themselves in a situation where a job in one of these hellholes is an attractive proposition are in those types of desperate life circumstances.
  - sneak 9y ago
    I hadn’t realized Amazon had established a monopoly on unskilled labor positions. A real shame for society, then.
- DanBC 9y ago
  > Every single person who has a job with Amazon is there because they choose to be. That's not necessarily the case in the UK where people claiming unemployment benefits are compelled to spend 35 hours a week searching and applying for jobs. Someone in that regime may well have applied to work at Amazon because they would have had a benefit sanction otherwise.
jbooth 9y ago
Why should they? Corporations are licensed sociopaths. That's by design, it's not a bug, we get a lot of value out of the regulated sociopathy. If you're against regulation yet expect companies to work towards the higher social good regardless of profit motive, prepare to be disappointed on both counts.
- holydude 9y ago
  Nah. I understand how this all works. I am a bit naive and hope that someday we will find a way to make everyone happy :-)

krapp 9y ago

You'd be surprised, though. I work at an Amazon fulfillment center near Austin and I wouldn't say that the people working there seem poorly educated or skilled, at least not less so than average. They're mostly working at Amazon for the benefits and possibility of extra cash during peak. Also bear in mind that, because of what Amazon pays at the bottom tiers, many of these people also have a second job as well, so it's not necessarily the case that this is the only job they could have. There are just too many people working in these jobs for that to be the case.

burntrelish1273 9y ago
Cool. How are working conditions: organized, chaotic or brutal? Are there reasonable accommodations for the reality of life's un/certainties like doctors appointments, family/dependent emergencies and similar? Are workers paid a living wage for the area? And what's the prevalence or seasonality of CamperForce workers?
- krapp 9y ago
  >How are working conditions: organized, chaotic or brutal? Chaotic, and something less than brutal. The first two months I worked there were the most painful of my life, but now I find it more tedious than physically strenuous. Dehydration and repetitive stress injuries are a problem, as is environmental noise, at least where I am. I wouldn't discount anyone's horror stories about working at Amazon, though. It's a big network, and I'm in a large, modern facility with partial automation so I'm probably in a better position than a lot of people. >Are there reasonable accommodations for the reality of life's un/certainties like doctors appointments, family/dependent emergencies and similar? Not always. They allow for emergency time off, sick days, etc like any other company, but they will also sometimes not give much forewarning about mandatory extra time, since that's determined by "business need," and can last indefinitely if Amazon decides. I've seen many complaints from employees with children/other jobs/obligations about it. >Are workers paid a living wage for the area? Amazon pays below the cost of living here, but higher than some other entry level jobs, and justifies that by claiming the other benefits they offer make them competitive. As a result (and very likely by design), many employees are forced to work voluntary overtime to make ends meet, or find a second job. >And what's the prevalence or seasonality of CamperForce workers? I've never seen them, but I've only ever worked in one location.