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While this comment is down-voted, it is not necessarily wrong. As an Indian, I was so exasperated after Americans voted a criminal as the President that I subsc

While this comment is down-voted, it is not necessarily wrong. As an Indian, I was so exasperated after Americans voted a criminal as the President that I subscribed to multiple organizations which are considered left-wing by American conservatives or libertarians. These include regular fees to NY Times, Propublica and Guardian with occasional donations to various organizations in the United States.

netsharc 9y ago
The danger is that "leftie" journalists hang out with leftie friends and they tell themselves "All my friends are voting Hillary/Remain, Trump/Brexit will lose". and then we lefties get shell-shocked the morning after. At least these papers are intellectually honest and admit mistakes, one trait of the right-wing, and their press, is the metaphorical putting fingers in ears and going "La-la-lala!".
- gaius 9y ago
  is the metaphorical putting fingers in ears and going "La-la-lala!". Hardly - the NYT et al is yet to grasp the nettle and just admit that Hillary was a bad candidate. No Russians, no sexism, no conspiracies necessary.
floatboth 9y ago
NY Times is far from "considered left-wing". It's currently heavily criticized for publishing terrible articles sympathizing with and humanizing literal neo-nazis.
- KozmoNau7 9y ago
  Well, neo-nazis are humans, and we should never forget that fact. They're not mindless monsters, they're actual living breathing people, and only by understanding that fact can we surmise their motivations and act against them.
  - croon 9y ago
    > Well, neo-nazis are humans, and we should never forget that fact. They're not mindless monsters I'm not sure that being mindful monsters is better.
    - KozmoNau7 9y ago
      Oh no, absolutely not. Realizing that they're just people like you or me or anyone else is terrifying, because it means we all potentially have these impulses. It makes it much harder to think of them as an "other", and just brush them away with "well, they're just evil monsters".
  - pjc50 9y ago
    As someone pointed out, the coverage of neo-nazis was far more favourable and humanising than most of the coverage of black people wrongly shot by police. And surprisingly similar to a lot of the 1930s coverage of Hitler's charming dinner parties. Fascism generally is charming until you're on the wrong end of the jackboot.
    - Chris2048 9y ago
      Where is this pointed out?
otalp 9y ago
NYT and The Guardian are not "left-wing". They are establishment liberal and have supported every major war the US has been involved in. They regularly slander anti-establishment and left-wing intellectuals[1][2] and for the most part hate or ignore people like Corbyn and Sanders. [1] https://theintercept.com/2016/12/29/the-guardians-summary-of-julian-assanges-interview-went-viral-and-was-completely-false/ https://theintercept.com/2016/12/29/the-guardians-summary-of... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/mar/23/noam-chomsky-guardian-personality https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/mar/23/noam-c...
- icc97 9y ago
  The Guardian is 'centre-left' and the most left wing (it's the only one that is left of centre) broadsheet newspaper in the UK [0]. I don't think your comment about hating Corbyn is that correct either. There clearly were some negative articles about him and there was a columnist who was attacking Corbyn but who has since apologised [1]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom#Broadsheet_and_former_broadsheet_newspapers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_Unit... [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/10/jeremy-corbyn-general-election--labour-rewrites-rules https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/10/jeremy...
- chimprich 9y ago
  I'm sorry, but that's total rubbish. The Guardian supported Corbyn in the recent general election [1]. The Guardian was very strongly opposed to e.g. the invasion of Iraq (articles too numerous to cite). Of your two references, one is from Glenn Greenwald criticising the Guardian. The other is Glenn Greenwald /published in the Guardian/ defending Chomsky. The article he criticises got corrected. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/ng-interactive/2017/jun/02/the-guardian-view-on-our-vote-its-labour https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/ng-interactive/201...
Chris2048 9y ago
> I was so exasperated after Americans voted a criminal as the President The other candidate was Hillary, so the Americans had no choice in voting for a criminal.

netsharc 9y ago

The danger is that "leftie" journalists hang out with leftie friends and they tell themselves "All my friends are voting Hillary/Remain, Trump/Brexit will lose". and then we lefties get shell-shocked the morning after. At least these papers are intellectually honest and admit mistakes, one trait of the right-wing, and their press, is the metaphorical putting fingers in ears and going "La-la-lala!".

gaius 9y ago
is the metaphorical putting fingers in ears and going "La-la-lala!". Hardly - the NYT et al is yet to grasp the nettle and just admit that Hillary was a bad candidate. No Russians, no sexism, no conspiracies necessary.

floatboth 9y ago

NY Times is far from "considered left-wing". It's currently heavily criticized for publishing terrible articles sympathizing with and humanizing literal neo-nazis.

KozmoNau7 9y ago
Well, neo-nazis are humans, and we should never forget that fact. They're not mindless monsters, they're actual living breathing people, and only by understanding that fact can we surmise their motivations and act against them.
- croon 9y ago
  > Well, neo-nazis are humans, and we should never forget that fact. They're not mindless monsters I'm not sure that being mindful monsters is better.
  - KozmoNau7 9y ago
    Oh no, absolutely not. Realizing that they're just people like you or me or anyone else is terrifying, because it means we all potentially have these impulses. It makes it much harder to think of them as an "other", and just brush them away with "well, they're just evil monsters".
- pjc50 9y ago
  As someone pointed out, the coverage of neo-nazis was far more favourable and humanising than most of the coverage of black people wrongly shot by police. And surprisingly similar to a lot of the 1930s coverage of Hitler's charming dinner parties. Fascism generally is charming until you're on the wrong end of the jackboot.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    Where is this pointed out?

otalp 9y ago

NYT and The Guardian are not "left-wing". They are establishment liberal and have supported every major war the US has been involved in. They regularly slander anti-establishment and left-wing intellectuals[1][2] and for the most part hate or ignore people like Corbyn and Sanders. [1] https://theintercept.com/2016/12/29/the-guardians-summary-of-julian-assanges-interview-went-viral-and-was-completely-false/ https://theintercept.com/2016/12/29/the-guardians-summary-of... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/mar/23/noam-chomsky-guardian-personality https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/mar/23/noam-c...

icc97 9y ago
The Guardian is 'centre-left' and the most left wing (it's the only one that is left of centre) broadsheet newspaper in the UK [0]. I don't think your comment about hating Corbyn is that correct either. There clearly were some negative articles about him and there was a columnist who was attacking Corbyn but who has since apologised [1]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom#Broadsheet_and_former_broadsheet_newspapers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_Unit... [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/10/jeremy-corbyn-general-election--labour-rewrites-rules https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/10/jeremy...
chimprich 9y ago
I'm sorry, but that's total rubbish. The Guardian supported Corbyn in the recent general election [1]. The Guardian was very strongly opposed to e.g. the invasion of Iraq (articles too numerous to cite). Of your two references, one is from Glenn Greenwald criticising the Guardian. The other is Glenn Greenwald /published in the Guardian/ defending Chomsky. The article he criticises got corrected. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/ng-interactive/2017/jun/02/the-guardian-view-on-our-vote-its-labour https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/ng-interactive/201...

Chris2048 9y ago

> I was so exasperated after Americans voted a criminal as the President The other candidate was Hillary, so the Americans had no choice in voting for a criminal.