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> The slow progress reflects the knottiness of one of Silicon Valley’s most persistent problems: It’s too white. That's not true. Whites are underrepresented a

> The slow progress reflects the knottiness of one of Silicon Valley’s most persistent problems: It’s too white. That's not true. Whites are underrepresented at Silicon Valley companies compared to their share of the US population. Asians are massively, massively over represented. Why? There is no way to answer the question without opening the can of worms that is test scores, IQ, etc. So instead of being honest, the story paints a politically convenient narrative that is not actually true.

ztjio 9y ago
Why wouldn't you acquire indentured servants on the cheap from countries with even more draconian work ethics than the US?
- Banthum 9y ago
  Fair enough, but why wouldn't you acquire them from Africa?
  - emj 9y ago
    I don't know about work, but getting travel visa for people with African citizenships for attending conferences can be really hard. This could probably be solved if companies wanted to.
    - xyzzyz 9y ago
      A path to immigration and citizenship for citizens of African countries is only easier than for those of Indian or Chinese origin -- much shorter EB-2/EB-3 waiting times, higher chance of winning the DV lottery, etc.
- ghostcluster 9y ago
  Have you been paying attention to what SV leaders think about H1B visas?
ZeroGravitas 9y ago
The people who believe the 19th century pseudoscience you appear to be pushing generally don't rate Indian IQs that highly. Just the large number of people in Asia (4.4 Billion) and a selection filter is a simpler explanation.
- retox 9y ago
  What do you mean by 19th century pseudoscience?
  - barry-cotter 9y ago
    They don’t find the science of psychometric credible. This is a trifle harsh since psychometrics is very, very extensively validated, not something one can say of social psychology, for example.
    - ghostcluster 9y ago
      Google also extensively scores their job applicants on a number of metrics during interviews. https://www.wired.com/2015/04/hire-like-google/ https://www.wired.com/2015/04/hire-like-google/ Unless you want to call that pseudoscience as well.
  - emsy 9y ago
    Basically confirming the parent comment. If it's not politically convenient it must be bogus.
  - ZeroGravitas 9y ago
    I mean believing that there's a scientific concept that corresponds to the pre-genetics concept of "race". These "race realists" claim they have a good way to scientifically measure IQ, and that IQ is really important and then propose solutions that don't involve measuring IQ, but rather looking at people's skin color. It's a somewhat transparent bait and switch (or mott and bailey).
    - 9y ago
danso 9y ago
OK, I'll bite. Maybe it is wrong that SV companies have proportionally more Asians than whites. Not "morally wrong", but wrong in the sense that Asian communities have optimized for certain metrics (tests, school performances, college aspirations) and SV companies have just gone along with what's in the pipeline. Despite the fact that SV has a long history of highly successful companies being started by dropouts and other kinds of "miscreants". So these SV companies should alter their recruiting process so that their hiring pool isn't basically a mirror of Stanford's application pool. (full disclosure: I'm Asian. I also work at Stanford. I also play no part in Stanford admissions and probably have less clue about it than the average outsider) That's fair enough. So what's wrong with making an effort to examine the ways that the SV hiring process systematically -- but not intentionally or maliciously -- filters out blacks, Hispanics, and women from engineering positions?
- coldtea 9y ago
  >Maybe it is wrong that SV companies have proportionally more Asians than whites. Not "morally wrong", but wrong in the sense that Asian communities have optimized for certain metrics (tests, school performances, college aspirations) and SV companies have just gone along with what's in the pipeline. How is that wrong? Let the other communities optimize for those metrics too. And if those other communities have a history of systemic oppression, poorly funded school districts, legal bias against them, etc, attempt to fix that too (which would be even more important for the community overall than getting more people from the community to work in some specific industry). >Despite the fact that SV has a long history of highly successful companies being started by dropouts and other kinds of "miscreants". That's just a myth based on a few selective cases, which even count people like Zuckerberg with a Stanford education or Bill Gates as "drop-outs" because they didn't finish their degrees. Besides, a founder can be of any potential background as they are not to answer to anybody else nor do they have to have any specific technical skills (a DB admin position however, or a data science one, does have to have them). And even then, they are usually from well educated, well connected, and usually well white, backgrounds. I'm not so sure we want to take them as example of with which criteria to hire.
  - arthur_pryor 9y ago
nova22033 9y ago
> Asians are massively, massively over represented. Why? Selection bias? Asian immigrants tend to be better educated and wealthier..and their kids have all the advantages in the world.

ztjio 9y ago

Why wouldn't you acquire indentured servants on the cheap from countries with even more draconian work ethics than the US?

Banthum 9y ago
Fair enough, but why wouldn't you acquire them from Africa?
- emj 9y ago
  I don't know about work, but getting travel visa for people with African citizenships for attending conferences can be really hard. This could probably be solved if companies wanted to.
  - xyzzyz 9y ago
    A path to immigration and citizenship for citizens of African countries is only easier than for those of Indian or Chinese origin -- much shorter EB-2/EB-3 waiting times, higher chance of winning the DV lottery, etc.
ghostcluster 9y ago
Have you been paying attention to what SV leaders think about H1B visas?

ZeroGravitas 9y ago

The people who believe the 19th century pseudoscience you appear to be pushing generally don't rate Indian IQs that highly. Just the large number of people in Asia (4.4 Billion) and a selection filter is a simpler explanation.

retox 9y ago
What do you mean by 19th century pseudoscience?
- barry-cotter 9y ago
  They don’t find the science of psychometric credible. This is a trifle harsh since psychometrics is very, very extensively validated, not something one can say of social psychology, for example.
  - ghostcluster 9y ago
    Google also extensively scores their job applicants on a number of metrics during interviews. https://www.wired.com/2015/04/hire-like-google/ https://www.wired.com/2015/04/hire-like-google/ Unless you want to call that pseudoscience as well.
- emsy 9y ago
  Basically confirming the parent comment. If it's not politically convenient it must be bogus.
- ZeroGravitas 9y ago
  I mean believing that there's a scientific concept that corresponds to the pre-genetics concept of "race". These "race realists" claim they have a good way to scientifically measure IQ, and that IQ is really important and then propose solutions that don't involve measuring IQ, but rather looking at people's skin color. It's a somewhat transparent bait and switch (or mott and bailey).
  - 9y ago

danso 9y ago

OK, I'll bite. Maybe it is wrong that SV companies have proportionally more Asians than whites. Not "morally wrong", but wrong in the sense that Asian communities have optimized for certain metrics (tests, school performances, college aspirations) and SV companies have just gone along with what's in the pipeline. Despite the fact that SV has a long history of highly successful companies being started by dropouts and other kinds of "miscreants". So these SV companies should alter their recruiting process so that their hiring pool isn't basically a mirror of Stanford's application pool. (full disclosure: I'm Asian. I also work at Stanford. I also play no part in Stanford admissions and probably have less clue about it than the average outsider) That's fair enough. So what's wrong with making an effort to examine the ways that the SV hiring process systematically -- but not intentionally or maliciously -- filters out blacks, Hispanics, and women from engineering positions?

coldtea 9y ago
>Maybe it is wrong that SV companies have proportionally more Asians than whites. Not "morally wrong", but wrong in the sense that Asian communities have optimized for certain metrics (tests, school performances, college aspirations) and SV companies have just gone along with what's in the pipeline. How is that wrong? Let the other communities optimize for those metrics too. And if those other communities have a history of systemic oppression, poorly funded school districts, legal bias against them, etc, attempt to fix that too (which would be even more important for the community overall than getting more people from the community to work in some specific industry). >Despite the fact that SV has a long history of highly successful companies being started by dropouts and other kinds of "miscreants". That's just a myth based on a few selective cases, which even count people like Zuckerberg with a Stanford education or Bill Gates as "drop-outs" because they didn't finish their degrees. Besides, a founder can be of any potential background as they are not to answer to anybody else nor do they have to have any specific technical skills (a DB admin position however, or a data science one, does have to have them). And even then, they are usually from well educated, well connected, and usually well white, backgrounds. I'm not so sure we want to take them as example of with which criteria to hire.
- arthur_pryor 9y ago

nova22033 9y ago

> Asians are massively, massively over represented. Why? Selection bias? Asian immigrants tend to be better educated and wealthier..and their kids have all the advantages in the world.