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Taking offense to that article is the peak of sensitivity. What exactly do you see those quoted lines as justification for? Surely not the internet hate mob tha

Taking offense to that article is the peak of sensitivity. What exactly do you see those quoted lines as justification for? Surely not the internet hate mob that followed.

malvosenior 9y ago
It’s ok to say people don’t know how to dress or act? That they don’t know why they’re attending a conference? Maybe switch “men” with another demographic and see if it reads the same.
- chickenfries 9y ago
  No, it's not okay but the correct response is to get over it or write some critical words on another publication, not start a harassment campaign against the author. > Maybe switch “men” with another demographic and see if it reads the same. Okay. > It’s young women queuing with plush mushroom hats and backpacks and jutting promo poster rolls. Queuing passionately for hours, at events around the world, to see the things that marketers want them to see. To find out whether they should buy things or not. They don’t know how to dress or behave. Television cameras pan across these listless queues, and often catch the expressions of people who don’t quite know why they themselves are standing there. Sounds fine to me. You see, the "men" in the quote is not "men" in general, but the "young men" that make up the particular slice of "gamers" (which Alexander argues is over catered to by brands and not representative of the larger set of "people who play video games"). This is the type of sensitivity I'm talking about. Whatever you think, I hope we can agree that the reaction that followed Alexander's article was completely disproportionate and should be discouraged. EDIT: TFA said it best > For a games web site, there's a huge advantage to having reviews written by inexperienced, eager people who try to stir up arguments instead of calming them. Those people work cheaper, and their work tends to stir up anger which gets more clicks. Sure, these poor writers/targets get screamed at, but that's what they were hired for. Their employers don't care as long as the clicks keep coming. > In the end, however, we’re talking about video game reviews. In the global scheme of things, game reviews are REALLY unimportant.
  - malvosenior 9y ago
    No I think the reaction was appropriate. It’s great that we live in a world where consumers can actually have a voice and organize. The media never had those checks in place, now they do.
  - leereeves 9y ago
    > You see, the "men" in the quote is not "men" in general, but the "young men" that make up the particular slice of "gamers" This is the great flaw at the core of modern PC culture. Only some groups matter. If this were about the "young men" that make up the particular slice of "Muslims" or "Jews", would you feel differently? This would obviously cause outrage: > It’s young men queuing with yamakas and shawls and jutting teffilin. Queuing passionately for hours, at events around the world, to see the things that rabbis want them to see. To find out whether they should do things or not. They don’t know how to dress or behave. Television cameras pan across these listless queues, and often catch the expressions of people who don’t quite know why they themselves are standing there. > ‘Jewish culture’ is a petri dish of people who know so little about how human social interaction and professional life works that they can concoct religious ‘wars’ about 'God's chosen people' or '613 commandments', straight-faced, and cause genuine human consequences. Because of a book. > Lately, I often find myself wondering what I’m even doing here. And I know I’m not alone. > All of us should be better than this. You should be deeply questioning your life choices if this and this and this are the prominent public face your country presents to the rest of the world. > This is what the rest of the world knows about your country -- this, and headlines about billion-dollar wars or those settlers with the razor wire fences. That’s it. You should absolutely be better than this. > You don’t want to ‘be divisive?’ Who’s being divided, except for people who are okay with an occupied political desert of shitty behavior and people who aren’t? What is there to ‘debate’? If you still struggle to empathize with either gamers or Jews, perhaps substitute some group you do empathize with.
    - chickenfries 9y ago
      > > It’s young men queuing with yamakas and shawls and jutting teffilin. Queuing passionately for hours, at events around the world, to see the things that rabbis want them to see. To find out whether they should do things or not. They don’t know how to dress or behave. Television cameras pan across these listless queues, and often catch the expressions of people who don’t quite know why they themselves are standing there. I'm not familiar with all the terms you're using (not sure what jutting teffilin is) but if this was describing a situation in reality I'm not sure I would get my pitchfork out. Also I know this is HN, but in the real world you get laughed at for substituting a race or religion with "gamers" or "sports fans." You might find that unfair or another "great flaw at the core of modern PC culture" but no one has ever genocided gamers, so... Also, gamer and nerd self-criticism and mockery is nothing new. Remember the guy who got famous on Reddit for taking pictures at magic the gathering tournaments, posing behind overweight people whose asses were falling out of their pants? Or all the jokes about how bad conferences smell? Gamers were fine with making fun of themselves. But now that some feel that the criticism is coming from "the cool kids" when often those "cool kids" are just as every bit deserving of the title of "nerd" or "gamer", it's time to get sensitive and play identity politics! Give me a break. Get over yourself. I say this as a hobby video game dev, lifelong gamer, 10-year wow subscriber, DND player... get over it. It's just games.
leereeves 9y ago
Many of them are social outcasts, naturally they're sensitive. Then someone's attacking them in the one place they find comfort, simply because they aren't popular. For not fitting in and not knowing "the right way to dress or act", as if such a thing existed. Of course they were angry. It was high school all over again. The popular kids attacking the outcasts. Only this time the outcasts fought back and for the first time the popular kids got a taste of bullying. I'm not saying it's right. Bullying is never good. But GamerGate is a drop in the ocean of bullying. Why does it get so much attention? Could it be because it's a rare case of the outcasts fighting back? Or because it's a rare case of the media being bullied?

Taking offense to that article is the peak of sensitivity. What exactly do you see those quoted lines as justification for? Surely not the internet hate mob that followed.

malvosenior 9y ago

It’s ok to say people don’t know how to dress or act? That they don’t know why they’re attending a conference? Maybe switch “men” with another demographic and see if it reads the same.

chickenfries 9y ago
No, it's not okay but the correct response is to get over it or write some critical words on another publication, not start a harassment campaign against the author. > Maybe switch “men” with another demographic and see if it reads the same. Okay. > It’s young women queuing with plush mushroom hats and backpacks and jutting promo poster rolls. Queuing passionately for hours, at events around the world, to see the things that marketers want them to see. To find out whether they should buy things or not. They don’t know how to dress or behave. Television cameras pan across these listless queues, and often catch the expressions of people who don’t quite know why they themselves are standing there. Sounds fine to me. You see, the "men" in the quote is not "men" in general, but the "young men" that make up the particular slice of "gamers" (which Alexander argues is over catered to by brands and not representative of the larger set of "people who play video games"). This is the type of sensitivity I'm talking about. Whatever you think, I hope we can agree that the reaction that followed Alexander's article was completely disproportionate and should be discouraged. EDIT: TFA said it best > For a games web site, there's a huge advantage to having reviews written by inexperienced, eager people who try to stir up arguments instead of calming them. Those people work cheaper, and their work tends to stir up anger which gets more clicks. Sure, these poor writers/targets get screamed at, but that's what they were hired for. Their employers don't care as long as the clicks keep coming. > In the end, however, we’re talking about video game reviews. In the global scheme of things, game reviews are REALLY unimportant.
- malvosenior 9y ago
  No I think the reaction was appropriate. It’s great that we live in a world where consumers can actually have a voice and organize. The media never had those checks in place, now they do.
- leereeves 9y ago
  > You see, the "men" in the quote is not "men" in general, but the "young men" that make up the particular slice of "gamers" This is the great flaw at the core of modern PC culture. Only some groups matter. If this were about the "young men" that make up the particular slice of "Muslims" or "Jews", would you feel differently? This would obviously cause outrage: > It’s young men queuing with yamakas and shawls and jutting teffilin. Queuing passionately for hours, at events around the world, to see the things that rabbis want them to see. To find out whether they should do things or not. They don’t know how to dress or behave. Television cameras pan across these listless queues, and often catch the expressions of people who don’t quite know why they themselves are standing there. > ‘Jewish culture’ is a petri dish of people who know so little about how human social interaction and professional life works that they can concoct religious ‘wars’ about 'God's chosen people' or '613 commandments', straight-faced, and cause genuine human consequences. Because of a book. > Lately, I often find myself wondering what I’m even doing here. And I know I’m not alone. > All of us should be better than this. You should be deeply questioning your life choices if this and this and this are the prominent public face your country presents to the rest of the world. > This is what the rest of the world knows about your country -- this, and headlines about billion-dollar wars or those settlers with the razor wire fences. That’s it. You should absolutely be better than this. > You don’t want to ‘be divisive?’ Who’s being divided, except for people who are okay with an occupied political desert of shitty behavior and people who aren’t? What is there to ‘debate’? If you still struggle to empathize with either gamers or Jews, perhaps substitute some group you do empathize with.
  - chickenfries 9y ago
    > > It’s young men queuing with yamakas and shawls and jutting teffilin. Queuing passionately for hours, at events around the world, to see the things that rabbis want them to see. To find out whether they should do things or not. They don’t know how to dress or behave. Television cameras pan across these listless queues, and often catch the expressions of people who don’t quite know why they themselves are standing there. I'm not familiar with all the terms you're using (not sure what jutting teffilin is) but if this was describing a situation in reality I'm not sure I would get my pitchfork out. Also I know this is HN, but in the real world you get laughed at for substituting a race or religion with "gamers" or "sports fans." You might find that unfair or another "great flaw at the core of modern PC culture" but no one has ever genocided gamers, so... Also, gamer and nerd self-criticism and mockery is nothing new. Remember the guy who got famous on Reddit for taking pictures at magic the gathering tournaments, posing behind overweight people whose asses were falling out of their pants? Or all the jokes about how bad conferences smell? Gamers were fine with making fun of themselves. But now that some feel that the criticism is coming from "the cool kids" when often those "cool kids" are just as every bit deserving of the title of "nerd" or "gamer", it's time to get sensitive and play identity politics! Give me a break. Get over yourself. I say this as a hobby video game dev, lifelong gamer, 10-year wow subscriber, DND player... get over it. It's just games.

leereeves 9y ago

Many of them are social outcasts, naturally they're sensitive. Then someone's attacking them in the one place they find comfort, simply because they aren't popular. For not fitting in and not knowing "the right way to dress or act", as if such a thing existed. Of course they were angry. It was high school all over again. The popular kids attacking the outcasts. Only this time the outcasts fought back and for the first time the popular kids got a taste of bullying. I'm not saying it's right. Bullying is never good. But GamerGate is a drop in the ocean of bullying. Why does it get so much attention? Could it be because it's a rare case of the outcasts fighting back? Or because it's a rare case of the media being bullied?